Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

AbsintheRed said:

I was thinking exactly the same
Steam is for stupid people, who can't manage their own computer and the games on it
WTF is this about?
Forced steam for everyone?? Go to hell

I was going to buy Civ V as soon as it somes out.
Now I will download a pirate version instead to try it out, otherwise will stick to Civ IV BtS
Great move Firaxis, you just lost half of your core civ players for Civ V

Click to expand...

Yes, the stupid ones are those of us who like a convenient system for organizing and updating our games (I have probably 30 on steam, I have friends who have 100+). We're also stupid for enjoying an easy in game chat system that doesn't require you to alt+tab.

SammyKhalifa said:

Now, people like Steam. Fine for them. If it's that great, there's no reason to make it mandatory. There are other ways to do the rights thing.

Click to expand...

For example, there is Stardock's GOO which is already used in all of digital download versions of Paradox's games. The advantage of GOO is that it does not tie the game to Stardock's Impulse at all and it ties the game to your email address rather than a specific vendor. It's free for developers as well.

A small comment, according to wikipedia NBA 2K9 uses Steamworks but seems not to be connected to steam in any other way (not sold there for example)

Oatse said:

To hell with all the whiners, you better get used to things like Steam and Impulse.

Click to expand...

Naah, GOG.com is the future (I can dream as well, can I? )and even GamersGate is better than either of the above (IMHO [wait, since when have I been humble? ], you are entitled to your opinion and I'm to mine). And as you mentioned Impulse, why would impulse users have to deal with steam if they bought a game from impulse. Think it this way: What if Paradox/Stardock/D2D or whatever forced every game they provide thru steam to use their systems instead (there is a problem with this in steam already with all the 3rd party DRM's included with steam bought games). Or if every game in Steam would force you to install and use GfWL (Games for Windows Live) or other such crap just because they are windows games. The major problem here is not how good or bad Steam is, it's that game is Steam exlusive and even if available from retail or other DD services it will force you to install Steam. Exlusivity, restrictions and monopolies are ALWAYS bad for consumers in the long run.

I can perfectly live with having Steam around (loving or hating it all I want, you can do the same), I just want to have the choise of where to buy it and what system I use to play it(wether it's steam/impulse/gamersgate/GfWL/D2D or any other gazilion systems out there). You love steam obviously, that's fine by me. Do you have a problem that I prefer GOG.com and GamersGate instead?

People need to stop blaming Steam and Valve for this; they run a popular service with millions of users. The fact that you will have to use it is entirely Firaxis' decision. It's a business decision. The very fact they made this press release was issued indicates that contracts are already signed. Lost sales from this decision will be counteracted by a free weekend or two.

NBA 2K9 also uses Valve's servers to authenticate and update. It's the only game I am aware of that does not require the Steam client to be installed. Unfortunately, it was also somewhat of an experiment by 2K sports. It is was last PC version of their NBA series and they have said that they will probably not do another PC version going forward.

deanej said:

And on the other end of the spectrum we have Spore. Need I say more?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Look, the DRM on Spore was bad. Or so I heard, I had absolutely no desire to play that game. I'm not for DRM that ruins games.

Like I mentioned, I travel the world a lot, and I don't always have an internet connection. When Dragon Age came out, I was excited, because I've loved BioWare ever since the original Baldur's Gate. However, for some reason I couldn't use the DLC (the same DLC that came with the game) if I wasn't "signed in" online. Since you can't load your saves that have any DLC data without being signed in, I couldn't play my games at all.

I almost pirated Dragon Age, a game I paid for before leaving for Switzerland, because I couldn't play it 1/3rd of the time. It was stealth DRM, and I hated it vigorously. I still blame EA.

...

Steam isn't like that, though. It only requires you to authenticate online once. There's not a game I have on Steam that I can't play offline. And it's not like Steam even changes that much. You can still use mods, modifier your files, back up your save, everything.

I got the original Fallout on Steam, and modded the crap out of that game. You almost have to, because it's near unplayable with modern graphics cards. I still have my saves loaded up on my key-chain USB, and I can redownload, remod, and replay my games any time I want.

The over-reactions here are absurd.

The vendor-exclusive content bothers me. Steamworks isn't inherently bad - I've a few games that use it - but it has some real problems. For example, the last game I purchased that used Steamworks (Supreme Commander 2) did this:

1) Valve let Steam pre-orders pre-load the download installer so the game can be installed as soon as the release date/time hits. Great! So, I pre-ordered through Steam and pre-loaded.
2) On launch day, Valve forgot to decrypt the pre-loads. So I had a couple of GB that couldn't be installed. Morons.
3) While that decryption comedy played out, GPG releases a launch-day patch that modifies a few of the compressed archives for the game. Requiring a full download of each of those archives because Steam can't handle differentials (at least not that day). So the pre-load, decrypted 13 hours later, was worthless as we had to DL another 1.1 GB anyway.
4) If you bought the disk version, you needed to DL the day 1 patch - no way around it. You couldn't even install the older (disk) version of the game because Steamworks doesn't let you do that. So a bunch of Aussies on bandwidth caps killed some kangaroos and koalas out of anger at having to pay a large amount of money to re-re-download the game even though they bought the disk version. They use the DVDs like that feral child in Road Warrior to decapitate dingos. Aside from that, it serves no other purpose. You can't install the game with it.
5) If Steamworks burps, you get kicked from your multiplayer ladder match, as reported on GPG forums. I don't play ranked, so I've not experienced this.

But my biggest on-going issue has to do with vendor-exclusive content, where I paid more for Supreme Commander for the priviledge of buying through Valve's Steam client. Where I could have saved $5 - 10 (USD, depending upon sales tax and shipping options) and received vendor-exclusive maps. And you can't get all the maps unless you live in France or some where they had a vendor that provided all 5 of those vendor-exclusive maps.

Bonus items really shouldn't be substantial in-game content. Maybe some aesthetic thing that doesn't impart additional content/story/features, but just looks good or something. I hate having to pre-order from Steam to get the Neb talking head and the map. We'll probably see Gamestop get some different map or something. I hate that crap.

The over-reactions are absurd, yes, and they have been for all Steamworks enabled games, but in the end, even the online community is a minority of a games eventual customer base, and not even all of those are against Steam.

Also, you'd be wrong, unless you are in Offline Mode, every time you launch a steam game, and the Steam popup "Launching X" appears, it's authenticating the game.

For those of you who have no idea what Steam is - There are a lot of full versions of games that are absolutely free through it so you can formulate your own opinions instead of instantly going against it.

I have been afraid of this for a long time. I have dropped Empire Total War, Napoleon Total War and SupCom2 due to Steam. Now, I will have to test my guts for real. I consider CIV IV to be the greatest game ever. Then to drop CIV V, it will be like moving away from a loved one

To the people that says "Steam works great for me, what is the problem?" The problem is this: Games sold by only one vendor is generally a bad idea. The marked doesnt evolve like it should, there is no price competition, one company gets too much power (higher prices, too much power over the game creators +++) and the end users have very little say in the matter.

Funny how the business is complaining about lost sales and blaming only piracy, when some of the largest entities are scaring away customers as best they can (DRM, Steam and more).

Buy from 1CPublishing, Gamersgate and Impulse instead!!!!

Born Acorn said:

People need to stop blaming Steam and Valve for this; they run a popular service with millions of users. The fact that you will have to use it is entirely Firaxis' decision. It's a business decision. The very fact they made this press release was issued indicates that contracts are already signed. Lost sales from this decision will be counteracted by a free weekend or two.

Click to expand...

It is their decision. Probably forced on them by 2K. That said, it's my decision to say no sale, which is the only consumer response that means anything.

Born Acorn said:

The over-reactions are absurd, yes, and they have been for all Steamworks enabled games, but in the end, even the online community is a minority of a games eventual customer base, and not even all of those are against Steam.

Also, you'd be wrong, unless you are in Offline Mode, every time you launch a steam game, and the Steam popup "Launching X" appears, it's authenticating the game.

For those of you who have no idea what Steam is - There are a lot of full versions of games that are absolutely free through it so you can formulate your own opinions instead of instantly going against it.

Click to expand...

a lot? theres barely more than 10..

joasoze said:

I have been afraid of this for a long time. I have dropped Empire Total War, Napoleon Total War and SupCom2 due to Steam. Now, I will have to test my guts for real. I consider CIV IV to be the greatest game ever. Then to drop CIV V, it will be like moving away from a loved one

To the people that says "Steam works great for me, what is the problem?" The problem is this: Games sold by only one vendor is generally a bad idea. The marked doesnt evolve like it should, there is no price competition, one company gets too much power (higher prices, too much power over the game creators +++) and the end users have very little say in the matter.

Funny how the business is complaining about lost sales and blaming only piracy, when some of the largest entities are scaring away customers as best they can (DRM, Steam and more).

Buy from 1CPublishing, Gamersgate and Impulse instead!!!!

Click to expand...

Blame steam for prices when valve releases all of their DLC for free while every other major game company is selling small updates for $5-10 each Steam isn't the only vendor either, you just need it installed to validate your game. Steam also has some of the best sales on games, I've bought almost all of my steam games at highly discounted rates (CivIV for example, for $20 with BTS/Warlords/Col).

Your argument is based on nothing, Empire total war was ALSO sold by other vendors, so there's some other reason you don't buy steam games I think

Zhahz said:

Useless feature to me since I don't play multiplayer or use/want any of these features.

Click to expand...

lol you have no friends

IMO, overall this is a slap in the face to the millions of fanatical civ players over the decades.

Click to expand...

Yes you're such a big fan and supporter of Firaxis, they really need you to profit and thrive. Also you're such a good supporter, buying this game that they make so they can make some mo--oops nevermind you're not buying it, I guess you really aren't that big a fan of them.

arstal said:

Even I know I'm in a small minority.

They'll lose 3-4% of sales, that's it. In return, they get free DRM. Valve gets an exclusive that really hurts its competitors (even moreso then MW2)

The only losers are the consumers.

Click to expand...

Yeah I agree, you guys are a bunch of losers.

Seriously you're all a bunch of whiny babbies. You're all going to end up buying it anyways when it comes out.

After having already dealt with that piece of malware called Steam during the Half Life 2 ages I promised myself to never ever buy again anything that would force me to install a malware software into my PC.

Civ5? No thanks, I will buy two copies of Elemental: War of Magic instead... developers keeping their games free of this are scarce these days and deserve support.

TCMIV said:

Blame steam for prices when valve releases all of their DLC for free while every other major game company is selling small updates for $5-10 each Steam isn't the only vendor either, you just need it installed to validate your game. Steam also has some of the best sales on games, I've bought almost all of my steam games at highly discounted rates (CivIV for example, for $20 with BTS/Warlords/Col).

Your argument is based on nothing, Empire total war was ALSO sold by other vendors, so there's some other reason you don't buy steam games I think

Click to expand...

I had Empire TW in my hand at Gamestop. On the back of the box it said Steam account required..

The good thing about Steamworks is that it brings with it the Steam community - represented by hay guyz (author of two, now three, wonderful posts just up a bit on this page). Now, if that doesn't entice someone to buy through Valve I don't know what will.

I just dont care for companies that gets so big/important/fashionable that they can squeese the suppliers and the end users. Therefore I have no Ipod, no Steam and I try to support smaller companies. The Steam fanbois are starting to sound like the Apple fanbois to me. To each his own