Liberty Domination Walkthrough

For me Jungle starts entail either setting on a luxury no matter what or making a hard push for the Pyramids(not super early though, you still need Bronze and Calendar anyway) . The best option is moving your capital but on smaller maps that may not be an option.

I really like this guide. I keep coming back to check it and compare my latest (failed) attempt to your benchmarks. Usually I beeline schools and stay peaceful until Dynamite, but I fall behind somewhere in between Education and Scientific Theory. T150 schools is something I just cannot do. Is it RAs? I have a hard time making friends in my games and usually can't get an RA before WC kicks in. Do you expect to do t150 every single time you beeline ST?

Hey Moriarte, thank you for your beautiful guide. I only stumbled across it yesterday and decided to give it a go (I am an Emperor player)- and I was so surprised how well everything works despite the fact that bnw seems to favor tradition and supertall empires.

You mentioned that you might expand on the actual warring part of your strategies. I for one would be very grateful if you included general guidelines, perhaps rules of thumb regarding the number of units vs city defense, and tricks such as the healing promotion in cities with large airforces. Unfortunately as I am partially deaf I couldn't understand your Denmark-playthrough :/ I understand this won't apply to most people but I feel an additional combat-section would be AWESOME. Mostly because I feel that whereas late-game war is easier to navigate, early and mid-game war requires more brains than brawn, because you have less options (ranged+melee only).

What do you think?

//Edit: My main question is: how to balance warmonger penalties with wars? How do you deal with embargoes? Are there strategies to mediate the penalties, or would you say: the worse it gets, the more you have to conquer to maintain happiness and whatever might be lacking?

Hey, bison!

Generally, i like having 7-8 composites and 2 melee if the map dictates some early warfare. The problem is, as you mention - penalties. There is a way around this is you can manage to declare war on your first civ very early. If you do declare war on that civ before meeting others, you won't get warmongering hate from the world.

Let's assume you took one city from that civ. Now it is time to chill out and train your units, but don't take their second city, as that will brand you a menace. Just surround their second city with your units, rotate them wisely and you will get yourself a few logistics composites before turn 100. Some AI's may be unhappy that you took just one city, but this modifier will fade, eventually. Around turn 100 you can take the second city.

If you really want to play nice with everybody, play subtle. Allow for cool down periods after taking each city. There is always stuff to do: hunt down remaining troops, take random shots at cities, hunt barbs, explore, etc.

If you proceed like this, you can go through first half of the game with most AIs liking you. When they realize you are a warmonger, it will be too late.

Basically, any element of world diplomacy can help you mediate penalties with the world, while warring. Trade a lot, propose only resolutions, for which most of the world will be grateful, share intrigue, forgive CS bullying, etc, etc.

As for defense ratings: CBs are good until 25 defense rating. XBs are good until 40. (if you have some ranged XBs by then, well, it's up to 50, i guess). I don't use infantry line much (mostly horses), so maybe people can give their perspectives on how it is done properly with melee.

thanks a bunch!!
so basically warmonger does not simply equal = taking cities, but rather an entire way of playing mean- like wars of attrition to get the promotion.
I tend to skip XB's because I feel I need the tech at the top/middle more, I think that is my main mistake. I will definitely go for another domination play tomorrow!

livsbrand said:

I really like this guide. I keep coming back to check it and compare my latest (failed) attempt to your benchmarks. Usually I beeline schools and stay peaceful until Dynamite, but I fall behind somewhere in between Education and Scientific Theory. T150 schools is something I just cannot do. Is it RAs? I have a hard time making friends in my games and usually can't get an RA before WC kicks in. Do you expect to do t150 every single time you beeline ST?

Click to expand...

It is map dependent. Now that i played through few really bad starts i can say that unlocking sub t.180 public schools are perfectly fine. You can unlock them even later and win. That will delay your finish time, but who cares if you have 20 bombers, right?

RAs help, of course, but they are not mandatory. What you want is: very fast growth rate in first 100 or so turns, then you can go production focus and go with the flow. Early growth is key, again.

Moriarte said:

It is map dependent. Now that i played through few really bad starts i can say that unlocking sub t.180 public schools are perfectly fine. You can unlock them even later and win. That will delay your finish time, but who cares if you have 20 bombers, right?

RAs help, of course, but they are not mandatory. What you want is: very fast growth rate in first 100 or so turns, then you can go production focus and go with the flow. Early growth is key, again.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Maybe I'll feel a bit less stressed now. Sub-t180 is easy! I started watching your Denmark LP. Found it incredibly humorous and enlightening. Would be really cool to see one where you kill some stuff before artillery! Got any more coming?

sorry for the noob question but when you picked your first pantheon you had +10 culture coming in. The pantheon was I think God of Festivals +1 culture for each wine and incense. After you picked it you went up to +12 culture but, I didn't see any of your cities having wine or incense. So as long as its on the map whether its in your city or not you get the bonus?

You get the culture/faith even if wine is not improved. Same goes for gold/silver pantheon.

I've got a decent game going with America. I think they are a great civ for this strategy, since the UA synergizes so well with non-tradition, and the extra sight has great tactical benefits for war, never mind the B17 and all-terrain minutemen infantry.

I managed to get the NC on turn 84 with 4 cities after building pyramids while my capital waited for the other libraries to get constructed. Everything was timed nicely, I popped my great engineer just as the last libraries and philosophy was getting finished. I finished up my public schools like 170, now its 179 and I'm bulbing my way toward artillery. I'm 2nd in tech.

I think I just made a crucial misstep in building the porcelain tower in my capital. I should probably have built it in one of the satellite cities instead since there's no rush (no one went rationalism). As it is now, I'm stuck for like 10 turns in my capital when I should be building up military, as I'll reach artillery in about 7 turns or so.

The other problem is that I had to spend one point in between finishing liberty and getting to rationalism, and I spent it in commerce. Now it looks like I'm committed to dumping points in rationalism for a while so I would have been better off with patronage so at least I'd get the 75% decay rate (which is worth a lot more than 25% more gold in my capital).

Man its such a tough choice, cause I love going commerce, but it seems like rationalism is just so crucial for getting ahead militarily. Going ultra-beeline on research buildings and SP's, I'm second in tech at t179, so I'd definitely be pretty far behind if I'd gone full commerce.


Anyway, I like this strategy a lot, it suits my playstyle the most of any of the other guides. Tradition just seems dreadfully slow and too dependent on luck to tackle deity pangaea. So often I'm stuck with like 2 cities, one of which sucks. Maybe it is long-term better than liberty, but thats assuming the long term even comes, and you aren't hamstrung from the start by getting started so slowly.

Whats your favorite Civ to play with this strategy? I dont see that many synergies.

EvanDevin said:

Whats your favorite Civ to play with this strategy? I dont see that many synergies.

Click to expand...

Most civs can be played to their advantage. There are few civs that are generally well suited for domination and "wide" play though, in my opinion.

Maya: Cheap archers, free religion and a bunch of free great people.

Persia: Every bank provides +2 happiness. +1 move during golden age (awesome)

Poland: Obviously.

Sweden: Gift great generals to cultural CS and you are guaranteed consulates (and other perks) in every game. Caroleans aren't bad either.

Arabia: Camels are great and start bias increases chances of desert folklore.

Rome: Need to produce lots of stuff in a domination game. (well, in any game) Having % bonus helps a lot.

Polynesia: Massive culture when and where you want it.

England/China: Strong UU's.

Russia: Great production tiles, lots of gold from selling off strategics. I really like Cossack's +33% against wounded.

Babylon: Probably the best civ for any type of victory. Closely followed by Korea.

Maybe i missed few.

I did this with Shoshone. Worked great.

Fragamemnon said:

I did a game with Darius tonight and timing the composite bow upgrades with the Representation Golden Age felt completely broken. I am used to playing Persia as Tradition but man I felt so invincible I forward settled right into Mongolia and took his capital while he was off bullying a CS as Mongolia generally does at that point in a game.

If he had all of his units around it wouldn't have mattered much. Three move buffed composite bows are absurd at the turns it happens in a game.

Click to expand...

Nasty combo man, well done!

Is it better to attack a City State than a Civ or go after Civ's as a priority?

I think it's worth mentioning that some of this strategy works *best* on Diety. For example, watching the LP, you'll see he has stolen his first worker by roughly turn 12. This only works because the AI *starts* with workers on Diety. Normally the first worker you could get would be the one he stole around turn 30. 20 extra turns of a worker is huge at the beginning of the game. Similarly, the aggressive expansion of the AI on Diety (partly due to spawning with extra settlers) is significant. You're much less likely to remain isolated for long on Diety. You'll get more trade routes sooner, and you'll be more behind in science, etc. etc.

Not to say this strategy isn't going to work on Emperor or below, you just can't expect to have some of the things by the turn you'd get them on Diety.

That being said, if you're not playing on Diety, you can survive a slower start. So, it really doesn't matter. But I've seen a lot of people asking "How did you pull this off by turn X??" and this is part of it.

Also, I couldn't help noticing that in the LP a LOT of things went his way. A culture ruin right off the bat. Then another one. He met Suleiman and an unprotected worker walked right up to him. He moved over to get away from a barb, met a city state and a worker walked right up to him. The CS wasn't protected, etc. etc.

Not to take away from the strategy. This is very solid approach!

I toyed with it last night as Sweden and found it very successful, despite an isolated start causing me to get swarmed by barbarians. By turn 100, I had captured Washington and placed 5 cities, got Oracle and Pyramids, etc. etc.

I haven't finished the game, but I'm pretty sure it's in the bag. I normally play Tradition, and haven't had much luck with Liberty in BNW other than a Dido game that really went my way, so the guide is much appreciated.

Great instructive LP Moriarte. Love your humor and stressless attitude.

Your strategies and build orders are very similar to my deity playing style but your're clearly a better and more experienced player than me. Hat off to you !

I just find that going scientific theory for artilleries rush is dangerous. When war are started at deity, I often dearly need Xbows and the likes to keep the military momentum.

For Maya and Poland, how would you change your social policies order (rationalism AND commerce with the later?), tech order (theology faster for Maya?) and starting build ordrer? (I'm not too sold on the scout-moument-scout approach. I find 2 scouts-monument to be superior in 80% of my games).

Also, what do you think of the TommyNT guide for Poland? How would you "warmonger-ise it?" (Ahah!). I find his guide really good, I love Poland non-specialist approach (open to all VC) and the possibilité to do a Liberty-Trad opening, but I always want conquest in my game, I'm really not the type to play a 10-hours peaceful game... The possiblity to mix your liberty-domination-guide with tommyNT-peaceful-poland-guide looks just awesome in my eyes...

Thank a lot for this guide and I would love to read your answers to my questions.

With Poland: You can go multiple directions, depending on when exactly you want to start your war. For late game warfare, use the exact build tommy provides (free settler, full tradition). For early game wars - full liberty, full commerce. Maybe, if multiple short wars are going to happen along the way you want to fit consulates in somewhere.

With Maya: You have the advantage of a free scientist and a free engineer. Scientist bulbs a military tech, engineer rushes happiness wonder. (or Brandenburg/Alhambra) Or something along the lines. Strategy mostly depends on terrain you see and not supposedly superior route for particular civ.

It's brilliant if you can get theology before turn 85 with the Mayans, so always plan to get there ASAP, even if that would mean less cities in the short run.

Thanks，this thread has given me a lot of new ideas.

I usully play Continent/Immortal, and don't like stealing worker from others (a bit exploit I think).

Here are somthing I want to discuss with you.

1. Now declaring war does't give much warmonger point, while taking cities, especially from players that don't have many ciies does. Will it be better to declare war on your neighbour, then try to prevent their settler building cities near you, so that I can still keep a good relationship with other AI (trading luxury and RA benefit) ?

2. Construction is really expensive, usully I won't get it before Turn 65. If horse availible, I think the chariot archer will be a better choice, if we really need to take a city from the AI.

3. What is the timing of declaring war on your neighbour? Too early means you need to watch out for their warrior/scout, and build a lot of archer to protect your worker/city. While too late means they may build city near you and you may lose your good city spot.

Thanks for sharing your strategies !

The thing I don't understand is how you seem to get the free settler so fast. Getting the liberty opener takes around 17 turns (25 cost, assuming palace 1 + monument 2 built sometime in between); 8 more turns to liberty 2 (30 at 4 per turn); 15 more turns to free settler (60 still at 4 per turn). Now that's around 40 turns total - yet you quote 4 cities by turn 50 ?

BTW it takes a bit more time starting with the liberty opener first, 105 more to get for the additional policy at 7 per turn (1 palace + 2 monument + 3 tradition opener + 1 liberty opener)