All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

Welcome aboard the ALC ships, Carabodes! Always interesting to have some giggles enroute.

Anyways, I think moving the Warrior 1 North would reveal the most tiles. Also, check for any seafood before Settling. A good Science city (nice food, and Dye) could be what the capital morphs into, turned even better with Bureaucracy. BTW, is Bureaucracy Qin's favorite civic? Learned in History that he converted China from Feudalism to Bureaucracy, but don't play as him a lot.

Also, in the event of an isolated start like I mentioned in the Pre Game Thread, the power of Vultures will be drastically reduced since there are no neighbors to rush, and more importantly, trade with. This'll make Optics a super-important tech!!! Barbarian cities will grow to be massive if its a large continent you're on.

Edit: PAGE 4!

C'mon...just settle somewhere and get on with it!

The suspense is killin' me...

Would it be possible for people using spoilers, as it has been done several times before, to create a new thread for it?

JujuLautre said:

Would it be possible for people using spoilers, as it has been done several times before, to create a new thread for it?

Click to expand...

JujuLautre said:

Would it be possible for people using spoilers, as it has been done several times before, to create a new thread for it?

Click to expand...

Please do. I initially thought I had 4 pages of useful advice, not 2 pages of it and 2 pages of stuff I can't read.

I'll play the first round and post it either tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

Gooblah said:

Welcome aboard the ALC ships, Carabodes! Always interesting to have some giggles enroute.

Anyways, I think moving the Warrior 1 North would reveal the most tiles. Also, check for any seafood before Settling. .... .... ....
Also, in the event of an isolated start like I mentioned in the Pre Game Thread, the power of Vultures will be drastically reduced since there are no neighbors to rush, and more importantly, trade with. This'll make Optics a super-important tech!!! Barbarian cities will grow to be massive if its a large continent you're on.

Edit: PAGE 4!

Click to expand...

Thank you, but be prepared for more ing tham giggling

Agree with you about investigating the seafood, always good to know if there's any fish to fry.
Allready knowing there are 3 continents, and we have a river, Sailing (and as soon as possible Optics) should be one of the earlier techs, not only for traderoutes, but also for investigating the coasts for more delicious seafood. And maybe put a worrior (or 2) into a couple of galleys in case we have a close neighbour continent, We might be able to snatch a goodyhut from a neighbour across the sea, and maybe a worker?
I love snatching goodhuts from under my friends/foes noses, and to find them before they find me, thats why I play Islandmaps most of the time. It's my viking blood calling me to get into a dragonhead longboat (wish BtS had them) and harass foreigners abroad.

I wouldn't worry about barbarian cities becoming too large. Sisiutil has long since proven that he can rush those cities at any time he likes, keep the ones that are ideally placed, and grab their workers. I think it's one of his strategies to save building settlers.

Carabodes said:

Agree with you about investigating the seafood, always good to know if there's any fish to fry.
Allready knowing there are 3 continents, and we have a river, Sailing (and as soon as possible Optics) should be one of the earlier techs, not only for traderoutes, but also for investigating the coasts for more delicious seafood.

Click to expand...

sailing is good! i just popped compass from a hut wheeeeee!

but, we don't really know for sure that there are 3 continents. hemispheres is a funky map, it splits them up sometimes. for example the first spoiler box in this post has 3 pictures of hemispheres maps set for 3 continents. the first one looks to me more like 2 continents, 1 snaky-freaky continent, 2 sub-continents and a big island . we know it's not pangaea or archipelago, but we can't know for sure it'll be distributed like "2 civs here, 3 civs there, 2 civs here, the rest is little islands".

that one is set for "varied" continents, and S is using normal. but further down there are examples of "normal" and some of those are funky too. this has been a public service announcement from someone who has no business speaking about normal!

KMadCandy said:

sailing is good! i just popped compass from a hut wheeeeee!

but, we don't really know for sure that there are 3 continents. hemispheres is a funky map, it splits them up sometimes. for example the first spoiler box in this post has 3 pictures of hemispheres maps set for 3 continents. the first one looks to me more like 2 continents, 1 snaky-freaky continent, 2 sub-continents and a big island . we know it's not pangaea or archipelago, but we can't know for sure it'll be distributed like "2 civs here, 3 civs there, 2 civs here, the rest is little islands".

that one is set for "varied" continents, and S is using normal. but further down there are examples of "normal" and some of those are funky too. this has been a public service announcement from someone who has no business speaking about normal!

Click to expand...

Good to know! I have not played Hemispheres (actually started my first earlier today, but haven't got a boat on water yet), so I just assumed that when the map was set for 3 continents, we would get 3 continents that were not "torn apart" like the thread above shows. (I saw that thread earlier, but it was too long to read all through, thought I'd visit the thread when needed, then forgot all about it. senile? Who? Me) Makes Hemispheres almost like Islands, but with the possibility of larger landmasses than in the ordinary Islands maps. Love it

All the more reasons for going viking and get the boats on water! (I once popped Astronomy from a hut on an unhabitated snowcovered island. )

Post Giggler/Maniacal Laughing Posters. Yay.

Carabodes, you're right about the barbs. I'm just a wee bit paranoid....
Sailing, then, should be a priority. Exploration by sea will reveal more Civs faster (usually for me, at least). Plus, there's a trade bonus and Lighthouses. If Barbs appear, a couple fogbusting Guerrilla Archers should do the trick.
So Hemispheres have 3 Continents on average? Sounds good. Better than Continents, at any rate. Check to see if you're close to the equator. Masses of Jungle will be a huge problem, so Iron Working becomes an even bigger priority.

Lastly, I assume you deleted all your past Vanilla and Warlord's saves?
*sigh* I could really use those I'm still on Vanilla, so those would be great. But don't post em. I can recreate em on the custom game screen if i must.

Gooblah said:

So Hemispheres have 3 Continents on average? Sounds good. Better than Continents, at any rate. Check to see if you're close to the equator. Masses of Jungle will be a huge problem, so Iron Working becomes an even bigger priority.

Click to expand...

hemispheres map isn't always 3 continents. you can set the number of continents in the custom game screen, or you can hit random. i got curious about all the new map types, so i opened quick future start games with 'em, that way you see the whole map from turn 0, and then i regen until i get a feel for it. but that guide i linked is cool, somebody else did the work for us

Gooblah said:

Post Giggler/Maniacal Laughing Posters. Yay.

Carabodes, you're right about the barbs. I'm just a wee bit paranoid....
Sailing, then, should be a priority. Exploration by sea will reveal more Civs faster (usually for me, at least). Plus, there's a trade bonus and Lighthouses. If Barbs appear, a couple fogbusting Guerrilla Archers should do the trick.
So Hemispheres have 3 Continents on average?

Click to expand...

I'm more paranoid; If I don't get the Great Wall, I make a living wall of archers, swordsmen, macemen, you name it, I've got them - yeah, I have the strongest army in the world! Not that they're needed in BtS, the barbes have been domisticated, I think, they were livelier (is that an english word?) in Warlords.

If you look at page 1 in this thread, you'll see that Sisiutil actually informed us about setting the map up with 3 continents. I'm so happy to finally having met somebody else with my own level of scimreading and selective memory. (I'll run and now, shall I?)

You'll simply have to take the big jump and get away from vanilla, BtS is so much more fun! (As long as you stay away from 3.13 if you're a multiplayer on IP-connection. I am, and I will not upgrade and miss out on the chance to finally beat the living daylight out of my much more experienced co-player, OOS-problems are bad enough without the patch. )

The funny part about the hemispheres map was, in my first Cultural Victory Challenge, I selected two continents and three were generated instead.

So who knows?

Long time reader and thought I would particpate. Your games have been very helpful in learning how to have fun with this game. Thank you...

Settle in place. Build worker first. Techs should be Mining -> Bronze working to give you slavery and something for your worker to do. After you explore we can look at animal husbandry / pottery as possibilities based on what the map bears out.....

YAY!
I found the best Vanilla map for creating multiple continents!
Not Fractal but...
Archipelago!
That's right, archipelago! Simply turn on Snaky Continents! I checked on wb and it works great.

On Topic Stuff:
Okay. Sisutil. Post the next round. Please. this is the 75th reply. c'mon.

Gooblah said:

YAY!
I found the best Vanilla map for creating multiple continents!
Not Fractal but...
Archipelago!
That's right, archipelago! Simply turn on Snaky Continents! I checked on wb and it works great.

On Topic Stuff:
Okay. Sisutil. Post the next round. Please. this is the 75th reply. c'mon.

Click to expand...

You COUNTED them?? Did you remember to substract all spoilers and off topic replies?

Yeah, archipelagoes are great, forces you to get those boats really early! Turn on low sealevel and you can circumnavigate with your first workboat.

Now all we have to do is wait for Sisiutil to get a boat on water.

There's no pressure here, is there?

What we are all waiting for is for Sisiutil to say: "I have circumcised the world with my giant clipper". I'm not holding my breath though.

ParadigmShifter said:

What we are all waiting for is for Sisiutil to say: "I have circumcised the world with my giant clipper". I'm not holding my breath though.

Click to expand...

Big Time

Regenerated Start, 4000 BC

Well, those of you pushing for me to regenrate the map were right. As I played into the first round with the original map, I discovered that I was (a) isolated and (b) without copper. I could accept the latter, but for Gilgamesh, not the former. All his early advantages really need a neighbour--or perhaps the better term is victim--to optimize them.

So I scrapped that start and regenerated a new map, with one change to the settings:




I changed the number of continents, as recommended, from 3 to 2. That should mean I don't end up isolated again, I should think. I feel a little bad about doing this after four pages of debate on the start, but the whole point of the ALC is to get the most out of the leader's unique characteristics. An isolated start would still work for a number of other leaders, but Gilgamesh isn't one of them. Who are you going to Vulture-rush? Barbarians? Come on.

So here's the new starting position:



Once again, I have rice to take advantage of one of Gilgamesh's starting techs, and look at all those forests! Since Priesthood is an early tech target for me in order to build Ziggurats, maybe I should think about chopping the Oracle?

I think the Warrior should move 1 SW onto the plains forest south of the rice. That's to get more information regarding the possibility of moving the Settler onto the plains hill 1W of his current position.

At any rate, the weekend is here, and I want to get this thread underway. So I'll play and post the first round tomorrow so we can get on with things.