i am not very good

hi as i am not very good i thought i would start a succession game with advice from cracker.

i will play 10 turns then post, to compare with you guys then i will play the next ten turns of my game and compare with your game at the same stage so hopfully i (and some others) will learn how to play the game well

it is on warlord
max land mass
randam conditions
with 8(i think)civs

www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/handyandy.Sav

here is the save

Andy,

I'll play along in parrallel with you if you think that will be helpful and then we can discuss things.

I'll download and try things later this evening. I am in Mountain Time USA and usually evenings 9 to midnight I can get some quick turns in. Sometimes an AM round if other tasks allow.

You may want to look at the "Improving Your Opening Play Sequences" article in the strategy articles subforum because this may really help alot.

Good luck,

I might play too, but I'm not the best! I'll try to come here every night too.

Cracker-You did a good job with your Opening play sequences!

Also, make sure you've unmodded you're game rules!

Andy, you are one lucky stiff to draw the civ and the start position that you drew for this game if that was generated all random.

Here's and image of the start position:



Persia on a big juicy grassland with rivers out the wazoo and wheat right next door. Sweet!!

I left the minimap view in the image because that is really significant as well.

If you would like to discuss the start position and some possible early strategy choices before we start playing that will be up to you to take the lead.

We could talk about some general ideas and then we can play our opening turns and see how we approach those ideas.

Do you want one more player doing 10 turns?

I suspect Cracker will do better then me, but combining elements of various player always helps. My play style has stolen some ideas from the RBE crowd among others.

Ok, let's kick things off by making sure we understand the play format and the general rules.

This type of a succession game is open for people to join at any point in time and basically everyone plays along sort of like an inch worm. We all play the game in 10 turn increments and then at the end of the 10 turns we compare where we are.

For the next ten turns, then each player can keep playing from their own previous 10 turn save or you can pick the save of any other player and continue on. You are not locked in to continuing with your game the way you already played it unless you want to do that.

I would not recommend jumping ship every time you have a chance, because it may help for you to play 20 or 30 turns in your own style just using anything new that you may learn. Then you may be able to compare bigger differences between two different approaches.

Different objectives and strategies may force you to choose different approaches to the same game and that would make comparison tougher. I would recommend that since this game is started primarily by Handyandy that we adopt an objective that seem similar to his last game approach and that objective would be to go for the quickest possible Space Ship victory. To do this we will need to maximize our longterm science research pace and expand the size and power of our civilization as quickly as possible.

This is a Warlord level game, so we should expect to be ahead in tech research under most conditions because we can research technology cheaper than the AI players.

We will also expect to encounter contact with the other civilizations on our map and will probably need to engage in a war or two to make sure we have enough territory and resources to dominate the game and achieve our major objective of winning the Space Race.

A key factor in the game will be that our Persian Civ has the double speed industrious workers so we can throw down improvements very quickly.

We can also look at the minimap position and make a very strong guess as to the direction we will find our first neighbors in if we begin exploring.

We do not know what the barbarian status of our world will be.

If you have not played a succession game or team game before, you may need to make sure you know how to access a text editor from within the Civ game when you play so you can take some notes to compare with others. To do this, you need to open your choice of a word processor or spreadsheet program before you start the civ3 game. Then you can use the alt-tab keys on your keyboard to just step down from the game and access your text file to make any special notes you might like to make as you play. To get back into the game you just select CivIII from the taskbar or use alt-tab again.

Good luck to all and the first turns should be played up until the end of all moves for 3550bc and then saved. Save the files using the naming format of HA1_xxxxxx_yyyyyy.sav where xxxxx is you simplified CFC handle and yyyyyy is the year in a format of example "bc3550". For example, my game first game should be HA1_cracker_bc3550.sav and this way when we upload them or download them there should be no naming conflicts.

Try not to use the direct file attachment feature because it slows down the forums database more than using the easy upload feature, but initially both methods will work.

When you have played your turns, upload your next save file and then you are free to download any other save files from other players and look at the games to compare postions and get ready for discussion. One important thing to remember when you upload is that you should make sure to post which of the previous save files you used to begin your next set of turns.
If we all follow the naming conventions we should be able to download files to a single folder and they will still sort by player and chronologically.

Good luck to all, and I will look to the next step when I see upload files from the following players for this first round:

handyandy *
Jamesds *
cracker *
LKendter *
stwils (added 11/13/02) *
Padma (added 11/13/02) *
JaxomCA (added 11/13/02) *
ControlFreak (added 11/14/02)
Borealis (added 11/14/02) *
HotRod0823 (added 11/14/02)
Infoman (added 11/14/02)


(* confirmed active players as of 11/13/02 4PM EST)

other players are welcome also, but we need to see an upload or a post from you if you want us to include you in the game pacing.

For other players ---- SPOILER INFO in the next posts reveals the opening moves up to 3450bc.


Here's my first ten turns and a couple of early decisions. (note this got shifted to 12 turns after we started)

Remember, don't download this till you play your first twelve turns up until the end of the turns for 3450bc for comparison.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1_cracker_bc35501.sav

here is my 10 turn game i havent done much

only irogate the grain and mine and road the tile next to it
building a settaler to build on one of the rivers

Andy,

Try to help us all by making sure you synchronize your ending date with the next step in the game play. Its not fatal, but when you play extra turns then all the other maps won't match you in the time sequence and it will make comparing positions much more difficult and confusing.

You may need to open your preference settings with the cntrl-p or shift-p command and then set the game to wait at the end of your turns until you hit enter. This will make sure the game does not play forward to a point beyond where you need to stop on the timeline.

I compensated for you this time by loading my game and bringing it up to match your time. The next stop point on the timeline will be the end of the turn for 2950bc which is actually turn 22.

----------------

Here are comparison maps of our two positions in the year 3450bc. Your position is the top view.



(oops, I just noticed that the status labels are swapped between the two views. Your status box is actually in the bottom while mine is incorrectly up in the top with your map.)

There is nothing fatally different between either position at this point. You are dashing toward the first settler at a quicker pace and I have put out a warrior to go and explore. My warrior followed the road to get to the first mountain and then is going straight north along the ridge of mountains because it gives him the widest possible view.

My worker tasking went to the wheat also because this is the most powerful square. I built a road and irrigated and then moved back through town to mine and road the bonus grassland square near the river and then used my roads to get back north in one turn to mine and road the next nearest bonus grassland square that is next to a river.

The major difference between our two approaches to worker tasking is that I have been emphasizing the gonus grassland tiles next to rivers because they give one extra and free gold unit per turn.

The research settings and choices can also make a difference early on. I don't know if my choice is the correct answer for this map, it's just my choice based on my interpretation of the strategy.

I subscribe to the school of thought that says you should have only three possible research settings early in the game:

zero (build treasury and rely on getting techs by other means)
minimum (1 gold per turn = about 40 turns)
-or-
maximum (usually 100% or breakeven in the early game)

You have left the research at the in game default of 50% while I turned it to max and am beelining for horses.

I think we can play on from here and see what happens and let the other players catch up to us when they join the game.

The next break point for comparison saves is 2950bc.

Good luck,

Here is my try in this game to 3450BC. I did not look at your game or what you wrote, Cracker. I'm sure mine is nothing to write home about. But I offer it for comments and for help.

stwils

Here is the save

Great stwils. I added your name to the roster early in the thread.

Try to follow the file naming convention so you help avoid mistakes and disasters. With lots of people playing teh same turns we all need to save the save files with our "cfc handle" embedded in the names to avoid having all the saves from teh same turn end up with the same file name.

Yours in this example would be "ha1_stwils_bc3450.sav" so that the file will remain as unique.

Remember the next turn break should be at the end of turn for 2950bc.

------

stwils,

Your save shows a totally different approach.

You moved your settler before founding the first town but then went for production and exploration with a quick worker. We'll have to see how this compares in the next several movement sets.

You can download the sav games of all other players and compare the games to see if you can pick up any conclusions. I'll try to get an image of your 3450bc position up for comparison.

One thing to point out here to all players is that this gameplay format requires you to be a "big picture/little picture" player. Each set of turns can expose you to information that you should not really have in the current game even though we are definitely using this info for learning and comparison purposes.

To get the most out of the process, you have to do one of two things:

1) either try and play your own game while ignoring or discounting all the extra information that you will have.

2) or jump ship and switch over to using the end position of another player to then play forward.

The worst thing you can do is to use the revealed information of other players to significantly change what you are doing in your current game from your existing end position because this will land you in limbo land and make it had for your to compare things. You will in effect be doing some really impossible and unnatural things that will not help you learn.

Some of this is unavoidable to a certain degree becasue it is hard to forget the location of a hut or the location of a luxury or neighbor once that has been exposed to you.

Just try to remember what your big picture objectives are while trying to focus your little picture view of your own world on how you think you can best reach the objective.

I may give this one a whirl, myself.

I assume I'm a "better" (read - more experienced ) player than handyandy. Cracker is a master of (especially early-game) tile usage. And I can always learn more from "General Lee". So another "middle-of-the-road" player's experience may prove illuminating. (If only for the humor value. )

And rest assured, I am quite used to the "big picture/little picture" idea. Back in the Dark Ages, before PCs, I used to play chess against the best opponent I could find: myself. I also used to play board-style wargames against myself. I have become rather adept at compartmentalising my data, pushing things I shouldn't know off the mental table, so to speak.

I'll try to post something tonight, if I'm able.

Here is my game on turn 10:


Here is a summary of what I've been doing in these past 10 turns, (Please don't expect the best, I'm only 13 like Handyandy!!):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

)-> I put my worker on autobuild so I can get on with other things. But I made sure I used the SHIFT-A option. I don't like moving them manually! That way they won't replace anything I have made. So for example, I can freely put down irragation and know that they won't change it to mines!

)-> I told my scientists to work on the technology of Alphabet, it leads to many other important things, like Writing, for communications and ROP, and Literacy which gives the Great Library along with standard libraries. If your're in a high level, the Great Library is very useful if you can get it first.

)-> I've built two warriors, and am working on one more to explore with. I've NOT built barracks, waste of time if you're not militaristic. (I'm usually the Greeks, and they're not militaristic) When you can make contact with new civs, you can start to trade. A barb hut, north of my city turned out to be barbs!!

)-> I've moved my warriors onto a mountain, and other mountains to explore further. Just a little bit of striped line is significant! (A civ's territory border!!)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Normally I play as the Greeks. They are scientific, essential to me, and commercial, which helps science in it's own way (with corruption). The commercial ability also gives me Alphabet, so normally I'd have chosen writing for a start. Not warrior code as the computer suggests! I don't usually have early wars. (Atleast I haven't so-far...) The Persians are my second favourite civ though. Workers gain a better bonus, and that gives you more gold, since you don't need so many workers!

Anyway, that's what I've done so far, I would appreciate feedback, because the starting strategy matters for the rest of the game, I want to have the best possible strategy. This is what I've mainly done for the past 4-5 games.

james,

Just confirming to make sure I understand you correctly, you are saying that your worker was Shift-A automated from right at the start. So this would mean the improvements we see on you map would be what the computer AI would recommend under this game play situation. Am I correct that all your worker moves were the result of the computer AI choices?

(Note: you can keep doing this if you wish because it will provide a great reference. But automating your workers is highly NOT recommended.)

Also, just a gentle nudge here, but try to hit the target save dates so your game will match up precisely with the other games in the timeline. The next date will be 2950bc.

This is only important for your benefit and so you don't waste too much of my time trying to reconcile the mismatches. In your case, for this one file, one more warrior move would not have changed the fog profile of what you can see, but in some cases this is a really big deal.

It is alot easier to compare your moves to handyandy, or stwils, or to cracker if the moves cover the same number of turns and end on the same year.

You'll see the importance of this a bit more as we progress. Although I may be able to project what the difference may be and write it down for you, a picture comparison will make it much easier for you to pick out some of the issues on your own.

All I've done is explored more, built another warrior and now founding a city on an ivory square.

Padma,

Glad to have you participate and add perspective. I'll add you to the roster near the biginning of the thread.

Feel free to jump in with any discussion or observations you may have as we get rolling and you have images and save files to compare.

You might try to play to 3450bc and then save at the end of the turn and then keep playing straight to 2950bc and save and the play straight on to 2590bc and save that file. This way you will have a straight shot sequence of 30 turns broken into 3 nice segments that will match everone elses games and you can just upload them one at a time as things progress. This will provide a nice reference as well

(note that this is what I already have done even though I have not uploaded the next two cuts yet.)

Cracker, I did put my worker on auto, it gets tiring when moving many workers near the end of the game, but I see your point. I might try it. Was it O.K though in your opinion? (You can be blunt!)

Couple more things:

You made a mistake in post #13!! You put that next submissions should be made at the date 3950bc. Did you mean 2950bc??

I can't download your save-game??????? Can you just post it as an attachment please?

+A funny spelling mistake: In post #11: "gonus grassland"!!!!!!!!! LOL!

Yes, I meant 2950 and have hopefully fixed those errors. Handyandy threw off my groove.

"gonus" (my brain and fingers are out of sync.)

Yes, you can download any or all of the save games you want to. You might try playing forward to the next break point at 2590bc (turn 30) and then again at 2190bc (turn 40) because these will give you perhaps a better blindfolded comparison.

This is not so much of a competetion as it is a way to compare what you think ought to be doing with the same thoughts by others so you can hopefully look at the decision making processes and see if you can pick out some key new things.