Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,502
Finally, the voice of reason.
"Debate in the Council" Event
- Thread starter jeff0
- Start date
Finally, the voice of reason.
thecraftybee
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2015
- Messages
- 235
Gazebo and his ilk have had control of this mod for too long, with little to show for it. Whilst they're here pottering away with minor issues and debating over those feckless ancient Americans, south of our borders and their terrible, terrible Terrace Farms, the people in charge of NQMod are beating us at our own game, and those at Anno Domini are showing what incredible, incredible innovations they are making. VP just doesn't win any more.
The establishment has failed you, you've never been worse off. If I take control and install my solutions, I can promise to make Vox Populi great again. I am the Voice of the People!
The establishment has failed you, you've never been worse off. If I take control and install my solutions, I can promise to make Vox Populi great again. I am the Voice of the People!
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
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- 1,502
#MakeVPCBPagain
Moderator Action: Right....let's get this thread back on track, i.e. the "Debate in the Council" event.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
If Debate in the Council is so annoying.. maybe consider looking in the Mod Repository?
pandasnail
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 535
Like Enginseer says, if you're playing with Events enabled, you really should be using Community Events by him and Hokath as well. Its so great and fun, there's truly enough delightful events to not get repetitive. Highly recommend.
I'd also recommend his version of Events and Decisions, but that does get more balance-changing and stuff to a degree, so if you don't want that, just Community Events.
I'd also recommend his version of Events and Decisions, but that does get more balance-changing and stuff to a degree, so if you don't want that, just Community Events.
Double agreed. All bundled events exist purely as a proof of concept for event designers like Enginseer. Praise the Omnissaiah for designers such as he.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
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- 1,502
Do I hear the winds rustling for Community Events to come packaged with the installer? =)
I do use them, but that doesn't really fix or remove Debate in the Council.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
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- Aug 5, 2008
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- 1,502
"here's a consequence-free chance at .5 / 1 / 1.5 turns of x resource" is usually how this event plays out. It's fine.
It's not about the event being too strong or too weak or whatnot, this isn't a balance issue. The issue is that having all possible options being at 50% chance to trigger just makes the entire thing feel boring. People start thinking 'What's the point of there being a chance at all if all options have the same chance of triggering?' or 'The 50% thing never happens anyways, the event might as well not even show up'.
For an example, the extended events thing have a fairly common event triggering a choice between 20 culture 20 science and 20 faith, on average this event is worse than debate in the council, but it being guaranteed to do something means you can plan around it and means you're always going to get some kind of return from that event popup.
Even just making one of the Debate in the Council options 100% would make it feel like you've at the very least done an active choice when you pick the riskier option and it fails.
Oh right, my event. It provides that little amount because it obsoleted too early. I'll probably add in a few more common events to compensate.
It's really nice actually, I've had it trigger around the time I finished by first shrine, speeding up the pantheon by 10 turns, really nice.
An easier solution would be for you to disable events then you won't have to worry about those pesky 'boring' decisions!
G
You know how I love to debate Funak
, but I agree with him here.There are a few events that could use some tweaking, and I think this is a good example. Doesn't mean the event system is wrong, just like anything it has elements to tune.
You know how I love to debate Funak
There are a few events that could use some tweaking, and I think this is a good example. Doesn't mean the event system is wrong, just like anything it has elements to tune.
There's nothing wrong with an event that has four choices, each of which has a 50% chance to work. It is a 50% chance at something with no consequences for failure. I don't see how that's a balance issue.
G
It's not a balance issue, it's an expectation issue. Having an event pop up and, through no virtue or fault of your own, do absolutely nothing feels bad. It makes the event seem pointless. The randomness is already contained in the firing of the event, you don't need to extend it to giving all the options a chance to do nothing.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
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- 1,502
Sometimes barbs burn an improvement. Sometimes you get 52 science. It's one event out of a fairly considerable list (especially if you're running one of the other two event mods, which I feel is a basic expectation if playing with events enabled. Remember, Gazebo's Events was at least in part a tool for other modders.)
thunderbird_14
Prince
It makes it more modular and modder-friendly if events were given chances to work on. So, if you think the event sucks (which I dont think so), it's more of a balance issue than a fault within the modding tool.
It's not a fault in the balance, nor a fault in the modding tool, it's a fault in the way the particular event is set up. For a purely beneficial event like Debate in the Council, where there are no prerequisites to taking any of the options, at least one of the options should have a 100% chance of giving you its bonus. As I said, all the randomness you'd need for balancing can be contained in the chance of having it fire - getting to decide how much Risk-Reward you want to go for is fine, but for DitC in particular, where every option has a flat 50% chance of working, you might as well just give them all a 100% chance and then halve the likelihood that the event fires.
