LotR28 - Random Rollicking for Returning Refugees

In my one solo game that I've finished so far, by the time it got to the later stages of the game I was digging up most of my mines and farms to put down trading posts. I had multiple maritime city states as allies, so food wasn't an issue, and it seemed far more effective to buy improvements than to build them.

Also, I really wish I could completely disable the city governors.

Production is almost always at a premium, but a booming gold economy can cover for a multitude of sins. In fact, it's my default action with puppet states to simply trading post every tile they can work, to limit the number of gold-draining buildings they can construct and to help ensure that they contribute positively to my empire, even if I never get around to completely acquiring them.

As for city governors, I agree. I have to go in and beat them over the head with how I want things far too frequently. Just locking individuals into place, every square, works relatively well, but it's rather time-consuming and tedious. And probably only necessary at really high difficulties.

Arathorn

Ah, yeah, puppet states are another matter entirely; trading post everything, since they'll rarely put their hammers to optimum use.

I agree with those that say it doesn't matter whether we mine that hill. The city will have so many potential tiles to work that we can never work, that it's not worth tinkering over that.

By the way, are we going to try to trade some of our luxes to the AI and then in return use that money to gain favor from city states?

puppet states are another matter entirely; trading post everything, since they'll rarely put their hammers to optimum use

Click to expand...

Problem is, Civ 5 doesn't even let you check what the heck those puppets are doing. I agree that any puppet that is not going to be annexed ought to be trade posted entirely.

By the way another cost saving measure I found is to
a. pillage extra road that the AI puts in their empire
b. connect cities via neutral territory where the roads don't cost maintenance

sounds cheesy, I know

Things start off well. Lots of things complete. Arabia allies with Vienna, but it doesn't last. So much gold is difficult to compete with.

I set our production. Two libraries and a settler (to make certain we have iron). By clicking the top left, you can see things other than science. For example, you can see what all your cities are producing. You can also see units that are in cities, which I also did. I woke a healed warrior in a city, to start exploring further south.



Other than that, I'm mostly exploring. Just moving around and trying to see the whole landmass.

But what's that I see?



A barbarian encampment defended by a worker? Even a scout can deal with that. A quick click later and we have 25 gold. The worker was Indian. And not returned. He's got a bit of a walk home, but he's still worth it.

While he's walking, somebody finishes Stonehenge. Glad we didn't try for that. We learn iron working. We have a bit by Orleans. But two won't get us very far. The tundra north (and a little west) of Paris is swimming in iron, though. It has 2 6-patches and a single 2-patch. The settler from Paris will complete just about perfectly to let a team decision place a new city. With tundra hills now as valuable as any other hill, it's not nearly as bad to settle in cold lands as it used to be. Food is still an issue, but granaries and maritime city-states can deal with that.

The warrior I woke in Lyons and sent south finds a thinly defended barb camp with another worker. I sweep in and kill the wounded brute. This time, I have a more critical/serious decision.



I decided to return the worker. 30 influence is about 250 gold. A worker might be worth that, but I think non-native workers are slower. And unit costs can get steep. We only got one turn of culture, but we can ally with Warsaw more easily in the future.

Speaking of city-states, Venice wants gold. I don't think we have any on our continent, but getting gold will be helpful in multiple ways, down the line.

Tech-wise, I finished up Math after Iron Working, to make certain our beakers didn't decay. I then went to Philosophy, to open research agreements. Currency was another option, as markets are quite valuable. I think it should come next.

After Paris completed its settler, it started on a worker and went to max growth, as population == science production == our need. The worker is tentatively destined for the new tundra city.

More city-state news and one we can do something about.



We have a spear and an archer in the area. I start moving in. Our archer kills a brute, but it falls to a second brute before our spear can reinforce. Bummer. We should be able to clear the camp soon, though, which will help our standing with Dublin, which is a good thing.

In other news, Vienna wants Singapore eliminated. I'm not sure we want to do anything with that, other than note it.

Our space goal looks suspiciously good, according to Ibn Battuta.


In other news, our settler reaches my chosen spot in the NW. We should discuss this and I left him unmoved/unsettle on the passed-off turn.



This spot has no sea access, but that seems weaker than in previous incarnations. It has first-ring iron (6) and first-ring deer. It gets fur, more deer and irons second-ring, while most of the rest of the first ring is tundra hills, which are as good as any other hill. It seems like a good site, but I wanted to discuss it before settling. Since the settler arrive on the natural pass-off point, I figured we could easily discuss.

Roster:
Arathorn -> just played
Corbeau -> UP NOW
ThERat -> on deck
Jaffa Tamarin
Kylearan

10 turns for everyone at this point.

Arathorn

Not sure it needs to be this city, but I think we would like to have at least one coastal city so as to be able to build ships?

People like ships. I like using embarked units as explorers and basically as valuable as ships. Until we conquer something. Sure, we'll want a coastal city or two, but they just seem to happen to me, in my games so far.

Arathorn

Downloading the save now, so got it. I really like the option to settle in place. We're France, so we'll rapidly get the second-ring tiles via cultural expansion. I'm thinking that a library (for the national wonder) or granary (for local development) would be a fine initial build for that fourth city.

What about technology? Go for Civil Service, or try to bulb it with a (semi) early Great Scientist while we backfill using our regular research?

Actually, after looking at the save, I'm thinking that a rush for Gunpowder (using a GS for the conclusion) would set us up for a round of conquest against one or more of our neighbors. And not only that, but it would push us into the Renaissance - meaning we could save up social policies until Gunpowder comes in, then jump straight into the Rationalism tree! I particularly like this plan since I've gone straight up Piety and/or Patronage in all my single-player games, and a Rationalism rush would be different. Oh, and the free 5-turn golden age from Rationalism would kick in at precisely the same time we'd begin producing Musketeers.

We could probably murder Ghandi with a sword rush in the meantime, since we've got iron about to come in. Just, y'know, while we've got nothing better to do.

I'll play tomorrow evening, once everyone's had a chance to comment.

Hehe, thanks Gandhi for another worker.

I like settling in place as well. We can get a coastal city or two later, if needed.

For those using my script.. I replaced it with a new version.. the old one bugged in some cases.. new one also strips the duplicate version strings that clogs up savegames and eats memory if a save is loaded/saved multiple times

Played my turn; I had a beer last night with family, and subsequently didn't have the cognitive powers for a strategy game. Good thing that I waited on playing, too; things could have gone even worse than they did! Working on the update now. Many screenshots are involved.

Turnset Report: 1000bc - 750bc

Since no strategic input was given, my long term plans stand as outlined earlier: rush for Gunpowder using a Great Scientist, and save up our social policies for a sprint up the Rationalism tree. After looking at the save, an additional Secret Project takes form...

I settle Troyes in place as our new northern city. It begins construction of a Granary; Troyes has the tiles to be an amazing production city, but food will be in short supply after the Deer are claimed.



In between turns, Caesar declares war:



He moves two Warriors and an Archer towards Orleans. This isn't particularly scary; our military is scattered, but our Spearman (fresh from mopping up the now-empty barbarian encampment) will move to assist. We should have no trouble holding Orleans.



Philosophy was predicted. What wasn't predicted was the extra Warrior that just appeared as part of the invasion force. That worries me enough to purchase an Archer to garrison Orleans. The city engages in a rather one-sided archery duel with Caesar's Archers that are stationed without cover on the open plains.



Then gets real. Another Warrior and Archer appear out of the fog. Our ranged forces wipe out Caesar's first Archer, but the best that our Spearman can do is move to slow down the encirclement of Orleans. This is important: a surrounded city will be hammered into submission before it's health regeneration and bombardment wear down the defenders. We have no good solution to the second Roman Archer though. All hopes rest on our defensive terrain:



Defensive terrain only goes so far. Our Spearman inflicts major damage before dying, and our Archery finishes an ill-protected Warrior, but the enemy completes his encirclement of Orleans:



Masonry comes in:



Yeah, I'd definitely be happier if Orleans' walls had already risen. Unfortunately, it costs 500 gold to rush-buy walls from scratch - utterly impossible, even without having bought an Archer earlier.

The enemy attack hammers Orleans' defense, though we dish out pain in turn. Our bombardment kills both enemy Warriors south of the river, but in the following turn the enemy Archer brings Orleans down to minimum HP and Ceasar still has one injured Warrior ready to act...



Ouch. Still, our northern Warriors are en route and arrive on the scene in time to catch the enemy out of position, hammering the Roman Archers:



Unfortunately the Archers pull a full-heal promotion out of their posteriors, turning them from easy kills into the anchor of the Roman line. We kill their warrior with our hopelessly over-committed Warrior, and pull our second Warrior back. As predicted, we lose our suicide Warrior. The battle for Orleans is over:



Roman Losses:
4 Warriors
1 Archer

French Losses:
1 Warrior
1 Spearman
1 Archer
Orleans



With the arrival of Construction, it's time to take stock of the situation. I've kept several projects underway while the battle for Orleans raged, and they are beginning to bear fruit.

First, Paris retooled from maximum growth to maximum production, with the exception of a single scientist specialist working towards our Gunpower Great Scientist. Paris can crank out one military unit every 5-6 turns, and our first capital-trained Spearman is already on the move east.

Second, we have the beginnings of a military road system reaching from Paris towards the eastern front. With the arrival of Construction, the resulting bridge means that the river is no longer a barrier to east-west travel. I have also begun construction of a road linking Lyon and Paris as a security measure and future trade route. The latter is particularly significant in light of my Secret Project:



Ladies and gentlemen, we have a Settler. The possibilities are endless, for our explorers have been busy down south:



I like the AI's suggested city location. It'd give us access to Dyes, and cut Ghandi off from further expansion. We'll probably want to kill him off sooner or later, so slowing him down in the meantime seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Imperial overview and demographics:




Note that our industrial production is still at the top even after losing Orleans. With our standing armies having fought to mutual annihilation (the military advisor claims our current armies are equal in strength), we ought to be able to outproduce Caesar - and our economic and tech bases are both vastly superior to his. The war's outcome is a foregone conclusion, despite the Battle of Orleans; the only question is how much damage Caesar can do before he falls.

With that in mind though, retaking Orleans is a priority because it has Iron. If we can deny Caesar access to Iron, we deny him access to his national units and he'll die that much easier.

And yes, I do believe that we should wipe him out. I've been slow on the Iron hookup in the north, since I initially thought that I could hold Orleans fine, but our industry combined with our plentiful Iron supply gives us a window in which to wipe out one or two neighboring civilizations.

The tech path is open, but I still like the Gunpowder plan. If we were quick with the swordsman conquests, we might hit Musketeers just in time to roll on towards Arabia. Caesar has put me in a vindictive mood.

Oh, and we crossed the cultural threshhold for a social policy when we lost Orleans. I've not picked a policy; I don't think there are any options more beneficial than saving up for Rationalism.

Roster:
Arathorn
Corbeau -> just played
ThERat -> UP NOW
Jaffa Tamarin -> on deck
Kylearan

Too bad on Orleans. Losing a city is a rare occurrence for me, but it happens.

I wondered what had happened with our northern iron and why we had warriors and not swords moving in to try to retake Orleans. I think I'd've prioritized mining the iron once Caesar declared. Sworsd are so much better than warriors that it's not even funny. I also love the power of catapults against cities, which again requires iron. I highly suggest ThERat rectify this situation soon.

Expanding simultaneously works for me, especially if we have the happiness to support it, even in the middle of a war we're not exactly winning. And while we might have to wait for the culture to get the tile(s) we want, I ilke the expansion idea. AI suggested spot looks good to me.

As for the war, don't be afraid to build warriors and pay to upgrade them to swordsman. That seems to be the best way to get maximum value out of both production and cash. Catapults can't be done that way, unfortunately.

Also, FWIW, archers are terrible at hand-to-hand combat, so if you can hit them directly, even with a hp deficit, you are likely to kill them. If we have archers, we need to make sure we protect them with actual melee units.

I'm glad the game is providing some excitement!
Arathorn

In my defense, even if I'd prioritized the mines first we'd only be getting our first iron a turn or so ago. It takes time to pull a worker over there, through rough terrain, and then build the mine. It wouldn't have mattered to Orleans, but it'd be nice to have now that we want to build an offensive force. The only way to get it soon enough to matter would have been to settle on top of the iron, which was a complete non-starter at the time.

And the combat odds on the Archer were bad. Real bad. A half-health Warrior (after getting shot in the face by a full-health Archer) versus a full-health Archer in defensive terrain is not a favorable strength ratio. It is, in fact, roughly 3:5 in the Archer's favor. If anything, I screwed up by promoting one Warrior instead of saving for a second full heal. Had I done that, we might have killed off the enemy Archer after all (though our losses would likely be the same).

Wow, looks like a rough ride

Too bad for the short term, but I am sure we will get the city back soon. Yes, warriors -> swords are the right thing to do. Let's see what we can pull off.

Got it.

Pre turn
Got problems loading the game, running through Gyathaar's program and all is fine. We still need quite a few turns before connecting the iron

Decide to go for currency first, we need some cash
then dial up Gandhi and pass him our extra wines for 225gold and open borders from him, pass 250 gold to Venice and they become our allies and declare on Rome as well.
We get more food and can work more shields


Turn 86 - 725BC
we get an archer from our CS ally
a Roman warrior pops up at Lyon next to our worker
we can only ping that warrior, our military is really pathetic

Turn 87 - 700BC
still same thing, but the new archer is now available to help out at Lyon workers now mine both iron sources


Turn 88 - 675BC
we ping the Roman warrior with our archer and city bombardment


Turn 89 - 650BC
bring back units to heal and for upgrading later on
found Tours way south

Turn 90 - 625BC
even with city bombardment, an archer and warrior we fail to take out that pesky Roman warrior

Turn 91 - 600BC
As Paris finishes yet another warrior and we have too many units, I decide to start the pyramids
If we get them, we please Dublin, if we don't we get the cash we need right now

finally manage to take out that Roman warrior and our worker can start to connect our cities for trade $$$

Turn 92 - 575BC
we get a 10 turn GA which boosts our income to 17gpt, really needed
happiness is down to 1 though
barbs now show up in the north and 2 iron connected
upgrade a first sword for 90gold, abandon our scout as he got no purpose and we need the cash

Turn 93 - 550BC
take out a barb unit and get an archer promotion, upgrade 2nd sword
we're ready to get back our own city Orleans

Turn 94 - 525BC
start to attack at Orleans, take out an archer with our spear after our own archer did some damage
barbs a re a problem in the north, center and south
we get another warrior that is sent south
we encircle a barb camp in the center

Turn 95 - 500BC
we almost take out the central barb camp
the northern barb is defeated for now, 6 more iron connected, we should be able to go all out soon
spear is promoted at Orleans and heals next to the city, another sword comes up, archer in the back
should be able to take the city easily

our workers are busy with road connections to increase our income
Troyes in about to finish a library, just nice to swap to market when currency comes in next turn
Paris is still building the pyramids, 8 turns to go

Btw, I did not take up any social policy, let the team decide what to do


Pictures:
central situation: about to take out that pesky barb camp and get more cash



North:
workers are connecting the cities for more cash
siege of Orleans should net us the city if we attack with the swords
I would ignore the city and archer bombardment and simply pound the city

Heh - I'm kind of excited that Rome actually managed to take one of our cities. It's really strange, sometimes the AI is extremely dumb, and sometimes it pulls off some nice moves that don't really look random to me, like the surrounding of Orleans. (Thanks for the detailed battel report, Corbeau!) Now that we have swords, we'll should be able to retake Orleans, though.

Roster:
Arathorn
Corbeau
ThERat -> just played
Jaffa Tamarin -> UP NOW
Kylearan -> on deck

Nice job on getting our military into shape, ThERat. Jaffa should be the one to take Orleans. With any luck/skill, Kylearan will get to take Rome and then we won't have to worry about Caesar any more. At least, only marginally.

Since we still have the goal of space, I would start looking for some research pacts. Their cost isn't unreasonable and they do help speed things along. To me, it's also a great mechanic for helping tech....

Social policies.... Uhhh.... Yeah, they're worth doing. Which one(s)? Do we wait for Rationalism and the science benefits? Probably. Patronage is also reasonably nice, but I think Rationalism is the way to go (partly because I've not really gone down that path before ).

Arathorn

I got it, not sure if I'll have time to play today.