Suggestions for early wars on Deity

Hey everyone. I'm new to the forums and I've come across a situation that I'd like to have some input from more experienced players. Hopefully you guys can help me out a bit

I just started a new playthrough as Poland on Deity and I got a pretty awesome starting location with various salt and wheat in range of my capital. I was also originally next to a river but I decided to give it up in favor of a mountain so I moved across the river and then a hill. Not a big a deal, the observatory is worth it in my opinion and I then realized that there is also sugar in range now so that's 3 luxuries (other one being dice, which was in range of the original location) in range!

Turns out that Japan is my neighbor and they decided to settle their second city literally 4 hexes away from my capital. And is next to Uluru and is coastal. I obviously want it! I saw an opportunity to steal 2 workers and I was just too tempted to let it slip so I declared war and took them. It's been, I don't know, ten turns or something and they don't seem too keen on making peace. I'm a bit unsure how to proceed. I only have an archer and a spearman as the whole of my army at the moment. Taking their 2 workers will definitely slow them down but question is: what should I prioritize? I think Construction is a good idea for research but I don't want to delay libraries, National College, expansion, etc too much. I don't usually go for early wars too often because I think they're generally not worth it and I have limited experience on Deity. But I think my decision was probably the right one in this situation.

Having 2 workers this early is pretty awesome and a settler is only 11 turns (Epic) with all the salt around so I would like to get my second city up and running (I also managed the pantheon with +1 Culture and Faith from Salt) but I don't think Japan has any other neighbor besides myself. I haven't even found other AIs and this is Pangea so we might be a little isolated.

Anyway, any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. I don't want to screw this map up. I'm pretty new to Deity, I've only won a Duel map and I played a game as Babylon (vs 7 AIs) up to around 3/4 of the way through which is probably still winnable? I'm in a very tight spot on that one cause 2 of my neighbors, Austria and Hiawatha, have gone for Autocracy and I've adopted Freedom and I only have 3 cities.

In your case I would do the construction detour before NC. Japan doesn't make peace easily and you might be forced into a very long defensive war or even an offensive if you wanted to pursue Dom V. Take liberty in this case for free settler so you can focus on army. In the future, do not steal workers from any of the warmonger civs such as Huns, Japan etc. unless you're going for DomV or are prepared for long war.

Well I'm pretty sure early war doesn't hurt your diplo too much, so if you get overwhelmed you can peace out and they shouldn't hate you too much.

but from what I've seen, and I've read/watched a lot of Deity playthroughs, rushing Comp. Bowmen is usually best for early war.

Take the city, peace out, then go hardcore on science. You kind of have to give up a fast NC if you war early.

Walrus Paradise said:

Well I'm pretty sure early war doesn't hurt your diplo too much, so if you get overwhelmed you can peace out and they shouldn't hate you too much.

but from what I've seen, and I've read/watched a lot of Deity playthroughs, rushing Comp. Bowmen is usually best for early war.

Take the city, peace out, then go hardcore on science. You kind of have to give up a fast NC if you war early.

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Taking a city with CB is harder than it sounds on deity and I'm afraid the OP is already too slow for that.

Personally I would not think much about far into the future in regards to techs. Defense is #1 in my book and that takes a lot more than 2 units. Finding quick gold to support the defense is also priority but in every case environment plays the biggest part in the timing. How far are other civs from yours? You said you had mountains, those can be crucial in defense. Having a lot of food around like bananas and marshes close to your main can also be a great benefit. There is so much in play at any point it's hard to give specific advise. Just be badass.

Newbstep said:

Personally I would not think much about far into the future in regards to techs. Defense is #1 in my book and that takes a lot more than 2 units.

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On deity it is important to plan out your tech all the way until Education at least. You have to decide on which lux tech to get asap and whether to detour Construction before Philosophy or not, once you see which other civ is nearby. If you see a warmonger, you'll probably have to detour construction unless you have enough gpt or extra lux to bribe. By the way, you can defense with only your initial warrior and scouts if you're able to bribe.

Strange, Japan next to you? Take him out... Or limit him to a tiny city as soon as you possibly can. Oda, will probably war you every so often cause he's a vicious warmonger. I usually get a DOW every so often just for good cause from him. I would definitely steal an AIs workers you can get your hands on... The boost is nice early and they'll forgive you later. Only time I wouldn't is if you are at risk of losing your units.

Also, since my early games I have learned it's hard to decide on several decisions. First of all Tradition is powerful early game, but later you may regret this. Liberty can have it's advantages if you're going to raise cities and spam your opponent. Also you can get the Pyramids(worker repair and pillage exploit if you don't mind bending the rules) You can also stay at constant war starting with CBs, but they're not a perfect unit to attack. On clear flat ground with an opponent with no UU or Mounted I might consider them with 3 or 4 Spear and a bribed war...this way you can probably take out a nation quick. That's key and once they are fielding Pike your CBs are obsolete. Sword even really hack up CBs...I would suggest if you're going to do a CB rush do it with a load of cash, buy a few CBs and upgrade some arrows and go in with 3 melee and 5-6 CBs minimum and use a worker or two to frontal block melee attack against your CBs.

XBs are doable, but even they have limitations on terrain. Depends on how weak your opponent is and I really love Artillery for early conquest. Though what the other guy said about get Universities up is ultra important. This is key as the AI does not fill it's Specialist Slots usually very well. I find that game gets real slow if you let the AI run away. Depending(!) Artillery dueled with Pike/Cavalry is a perfect trio to conquer the world fast. If you have to go to another Continent even with Pangy and or cross narrow corridors the AI loves to build a navy and Frigates can eat your Army so you will have to scout everything out first. You will have to buy a CS or City across that ocean move your units. Something I have failed to do so you do not try to cross under guns which is a futile thing.

Basically another key ingredient I love is Pay the AI go to war a lot. Then ask the AI to pay you to go war. Also then friend a guy(so long as you are conquering early) ask him for a whole lot of cash for all your Luxs/etc... and then DOW him. Also trade cities(AI Pays a lot for them) but beware they can be a thorn in your side later.

If you don't like being a Bad Boy, then liberate a few defeated CIVs/CSs

wait beyond Artillery...the AI will horde Bombers(you really get a narrow corridor to eat the AI) Be nice to take out 2 Capitols before Artillery though...and have 1 total Continent with a good road system to utilize your Window of Opportunity!

BIG: What that guy said about early DEFENSE do not leave your door open the AI loves to pounce when he sees he can. Spear/Pikes with your CBs behind stops carpets of doom.

(if you go tall, Trade food in your own empire after you trade for Science and stack your cities then add Observatories on your Mountaintop ... and then block the AI with your best spy...also CSs are the backbone of winning the game, you must have them)

Oda (Japan) is like Shaka. Wants to fight and will fight. He really likes his Samurai and wants to use them.

Hes also related to Dido. Unpredictable, a bit on the crazy side. Shaka for example likes to fight, but if you bribe him, join hes fight vs someone else, etc, he will be a loyal friend. Not Oda. Friend on turn, backstab on next.

Whatever you do, there will be war. If you can't bribe others to fight Oda (or Oda to fight others), then without strong army you're dead.

P.S.:
For warmonger you tipicaly need to wipe most of their army and hit their cities before they are willing to sign peace.

Oda is also related to Bismark, Monty, Attila, Bluetooth, Genghis, Suleiman. All of these leaders love to war and difficult to make peace even from worker steals.

Sclb said:

On deity it is important to plan out your tech all the way until Education at least. You have to decide on which lux tech to get asap and whether to detour Construction before Philosophy or not, once you see which other civ is nearby. If you see a warmonger, you'll probably have to detour construction unless you have enough gpt or extra lux to bribe. By the way, you can defense with only your initial warrior and scouts if you're able to bribe.

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Yeah, seems like a good strategy. Just going off my own successes. The biggest factor is the terrain and how far those warmongers are. Bribing gets real tough on deity, especially if you house a lot of resources. I'm kind of an arsehole warmonger so we can agree to disagree. Do what works, try things all the way through and find your horizon!

Deity could give players an advantage and that is that the AI is less intelligent at that level because you can steal more technologies from them particularly if the AI gets way more science than you since it does.

If you have horses consider chariots instead of CBs, they're cheaper and nearly as strong. You'll have to devote a fair amount of resources to taking the city, 5/6 ranged a couple of melee, but it'll be easier in the ancient era then medieval.

Zulose said:

If you have horses consider chariots instead of CBs, they're cheaper and nearly as strong. You'll have to devote a fair amount of resources to taking the city, 5/6 ranged a couple of melee, but it'll be easier in the ancient era then medieval.

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Chariots lose their promotions when upgrading, though.

Watch Dushku's Crippling Your Opponent With No Penalty and Crippling Your Opponent With No Military videos. Even though the vids are on Emperor the principle is still the same in that the AI can't play the game. Once Oda has finished killing all his units on your city walls he'll peace out. Although I'd wait until at least 4 Comp bows are are at +1 range before that.

This is interesting. Japan is literally the only AI where I've really struggled to make peace after a worker steal. I think it took my 50 turns or something before he was ready. All the others, (including some notorious warmongers) have always been fine 10 or so turns later, and they often follow up with a DoF!