Epic Deity Domination/Cultural Challenge Lineup (EDDCCL)?

pythonic

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
11
Would anybody be interested in doing an epic speed, turn zero playthrough challenge like the DCL, except that domination and cultural are the only victory conditions possible?

Here's my reasoning: at least on standard speed, diplomacy and scientific victories reward turtling. It's possible -- even recommended -- to stay on your original four cities. This is counter to what I really love about the other Civ games (especially IV), namely that land = power. Disabling these two victory conditions will make it such that you need to warmonger and expand aggressively at some point in order to win. Epic speed similarly rewards early conquest, since your units will not go obsolete as quickly.

Overall, the types of games that I'd like to see are dynamic games with frequent wars, timing attacks, and large, sprawling empires. I'm still on board with cultural victories because you still often require a large empire to generate enough tourism to win. This also allows some flexibility in strategy in case it's clear that domination isn't going to work, and gives the culture-oriented civilizations like Brazil, France, etc. some flexibility. Civs that are oriented towards science (Babylon, Korea, etc.) or diplomacy (Greece, Siam, etc.) still can utilize those traits effectively towards either of the two permitted victory conditions.

Let me know your thoughts!
 
I've always stayed away from anything higher than Standard Speed. As I have said before... everything I read about things like Epic Speed put the AI at a huge disadvantage with warmongering. Ofcourse the real reason for me is that Standard Speed games take me about 20 hrs on average to complete. Im pretty sure that Epic Speed would make my games go much longer in real time.

I know all these comments seem negative but if you posted games... I would give it a go and see if I like it or not. So I would play a few and have to make a decision. I would like to see how people tackle them though since I have not read alot of strategies on Epic Speed. I know Moriarte plays those but I haven't watched any of his LPs except for a Russian one that only had 1 post if I remember correctly. This reason is because the game had changed with his older LPs that I was going to watch.
 
Is there any chance you could avoid using the same terminology as the DCL please?

What about if you call yours the CADOD (Cultural and Domination on Deity) ?

The reason being that there are now so many different 'challenge' threads that interest in DCL is being diminished.

But to be honest, I'm wondering if we really need so many Deity challenge threads at all. Instead of setting up innumerable challenge threads, another option people have is to submit a map they like to the DCL, and then the host (currently me) can specify in the instructions: "Map submitter's optional quests: DomV or CV only", just like in ICL #8.

That way, everyone plays the same map and we get the communal benefits of shared experiences, write-ups etc, and those people that want to play for specific VCs can do that and share their experiences.

I think you will have a hard time finding enough support for a long-running thread on Epic or Marathon, simply because most people don't have the time to complete one of those games in 2 weeks. For every person like me who plays for 3/4 hours a day, there are lots of people who are so busy earning their real life GPT that they don't get to play as often as they like.

No-one is stopping anyone from playing how they wish to in their 'normal' games. In my normal games, I play really sloppy, vicious war-mongering games that are so sub-optimal I sometimes lose. But for the DCL I play a bit more to win, so sometimes resign myself to DiploV or SV. But there is nothing stopping you from playing strictly for a CV or DomV. I think it makes CV and DomV more of a challenge when you have to complete it before the AI launches, and more realistic too. Look at the Morocco DCL game where one player tried nuking Greece purely to prevent a launch.

TLDR: Do you REALLY need CADOD? Or could you submit games to the DCL and play it with optional quests in mind? More maps being submitted makes the DCL richer, and the more people playing a given map, the more the community as a whole will benefit from shared write-ups, IMO.
 
That sounds good -- I definitely agree that it's better to have everything unified under the DCL, especially if the mods are flexible in doing optional limited victory conditions. I'd be happy to submit a game or a save to you guys.

Also, I was the Morocco player who had to nuke Greece, which is why I'm interested in disabling those victory conditions =)
 
Yeah, I hate science victories too, so I sympathise. If you want to put your case to the DCL community to see about having one map with SV and DiploV disabled, feel free. I'd support having it once in a blue moon, but only if others agreed. If you look at the finisher's spreadsheet, you will see that SV are quite popular, especially amongst people who are new to Deity, as it's the easiest VC to achieve. I don't want to exclude lower-Deity players, since I am one!

But put your idea out. I give it one vote in advance.
 
I don't understand the premise. What is restricting you from playing domination and culture in the normal deity challenges ?

You say that it's harder than diplo/science, I agree but you know the people participating aren't compared on different victory conditions (if compared at all).

On the other hand I could understand wanting more directives from the map poster. That's what I personally do when currently hosting the Apollo challenges on civBE. I basically indicate that the special victory is X but that not winning by X has no influence over the results (spreadsheet). I just feel it feeds competitive players.

In the following fashion for reference:
Spoiler :
Options - Quick Movement/Combat (you are free to deactivate these in the game), Don't Stagger Starts, Frenzied Aliens.
Game Version - 1.0.0.574
Downloadable Content – None required
Default Victory (see informations) - Domination

There is no predefined or official victory condition. You are therefore free to win however you want. There is absolutely no consequence choosing a victory over another. A "default" victory will still be indicated for players like me wanting someone else to chose for them If I start recording results in a spreadsheet, every victories will always be on equal grounds.
Default Victory is indicated with game settings.


That's a case that I would personally appreciate being put forward but if other players are against the idea whatever :)
 
Personally, when it comes to DCL, I don't want to be limited in my victory condition choices. Half the fun for me is figuring out what direction I'm going to go. I do tend to revert back to SV, but that's usually because I've been thwarted (love that word) in other directions.

Also, if you limit victory conditions, doesn't it dramatically change AI behavior? My experience was that it made the AI even more irrational than usual……and that's just what we need…..Alex on a bad acid trip.
 
Gotcha. I'd still be reluctant to limit myself to a VC, but would give it a shot for fun with some civs……Like I often try for alternative VC's when playing science giants like Korea/Inca. That's about the only time I've had opportunity to use GDR's.
 
If you look at the finisher's spreadsheet, you will see that SV are quite popular, especially amongst people who are new to Deity, as it's the easiest VC to achieve. I don't want to exclude lower-Deity players, since I am one!

If you explicitly want to build warmongering skills, excluding the SV, and possibly the DV, is probably the easiest on novice warmongers (like myself) since then you're not racing to conquer the world against Korea or Babylon's spaceship.

I don't understand the premise. What is restricting you from playing domination and culture in the normal deity challenges?

You certainly can, but I'd argue that you can be pigeonholed into pursuing a SV or DV if you're behind in territory if those victory conditions are enabled. For example, you might want to pursue a domination and gain a couple of capitals, but if you get into the modern era you may have to stop what you're doing and turtle while building research labs everywhere. That's implicitly what bothers me: having SV enabled rewards turtling, which is counter to everything I know and love about strategy games.

Also, if you limit victory conditions, doesn't it dramatically change AI behavior? My experience was that it made the AI even more irrational than usual……and that's just what we need…..Alex on a bad acid trip.

Wasn't aware of that... but that's a fairly terrifying thought.

Anyway, the consensus seems to be that it might be an interesting idea for an Interesting Deity starts and possibly one DCL, but probably doesn't need to have its own dedicated lineup, and I agree. I'll go ahead and submit a map to the Interesting Deity starts at some point when I have the time to play it out =)
 
I really like the idea of the "default victory type", Acken. I think it can even be added to with 'optional quests', like in the Sweden ICL.

But yeah, I'm all in favour of total freedom. I'd rather bail to Diplo or Science (if I can!) and win than lose and waste 10 hours.
 
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