0% chance of coupe???

Hello,

I have been trying to make use of my spies for jobs other than security detail.
The problem is I don't know how to raise the % chance of success for a coupe. I have tried leaving my spy in the city for many many turns to no avail. So, my guess is another civ placed a spy there before me, and because that spy was there first it gets preference. Is this right? If that is the case then I have just wasted 2 to 10 or 20 turns to figure this out, maybe even more turns. Doesn't make much sense.

Also, why does it take 30 to 200 turn or even more to establish surveillance? Same thing, a huge waste of time by the time you realize this. Something needs to be done.

Thanks for conversation and feedback
-Frdm

I don't know much about this. I normally use spies for larger populated rival civs, so I can steal techs from it.

I do know that it takes 15 turns to increase your influence in the city-state that have your spy in it. And you need to keep an eye out for other spies that also maybe rigging the elections of the very same city-state that you want to stage a coup in.

Coup success rate depends on the difference if influence you and the allied civ have in this CS. To know how much more influence than you thé allied Vic has, go to this CS screen and hover on the flag of the allied civ. an info box will tell you "you need to have x more influence to take the place of this civ as an ally". Give gold or do quests to reduce this amount if it's too high, it should rise the success rate.

I am playing one of my loaded games.

One of my spies in a city-state has a 25% chance of succeeding. The only way it will go up is when the current ally's influence decreased.

So I have to wait a little longer before I get a better percentage.

Avatan said:

Coup success rate depends on the difference if influence you and the allied civ have in this CS. To know how much more influence than you thé allied Vic has, go to this CS screen and hover on the flag of the allied civ. an info box will tell you "you need to have x more influence to take the place of this civ as an ally". Give gold or do quests to reduce this amount if it's too high, it should rise the success rate.

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This make sense, wish it was spelled out better, I hate "guessing" at the rules of game play. Such a waste of time. I will give it a whirl and raise my influence level with cs and watch the results start pouring in.

Thanks!
Frdm

Well I guess then you might be stuck with a sedan.

Coups are most successful when your influence with the CS is about 20 points or less than the civ allied with the CS. A successful coup basically causes the civs to switch places. Only the AI seems to be able to waltz into a CS with no influence and coup it away from you when you have 150 influence (argh!).

If you gain influence, you will see the % chance to coup go up. Keep in mind that an 85% chance is the highest it will go. Also, I think (but am not sure) that higher level spies have higher success %, but they are still capped at 85%. If your coup fails, you lose ALL influence with the CS and your spy dies

Avatan said:

Coup success rate depends on the difference if influence you and the allied civ have in this CS. To know how much more influence than you thé allied Vic has, go to this CS screen and hover on the flag of the allied civ. an info box will tell you "you need to have x more influence to take the place of this civ as an ally". Give gold or do quests to reduce this amount if it's too high, it should rise the success rate.

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Hmm, I hadn't seen the tooltip for influence - not sure I'll use it since it spoils the fun to some degree...

Also bear in mind that if you're at war with the CS, your chance of success will always be 0% (since your own influence is strongly negative while you're at war, and the CS will already have an ally), so you can't steal a CS and turn it against its former ally...

Seems like there's a drawback to waiting until your % goes as high as it can get ~ if the coup is successful, your relative influence doesn't go up all that much nor does your rival's drop all that much in return.

If I understand this correctly then, it seems that this mechanic is designed to give players the option whether or not to take a huge risk and possibly gain a Big bump in influence (with little chance) or a safe risk to get a minor increase.

Everyone has to decide on their own 'sweet spot' % I guess.


-Elgalad

Elgalad said:

Seems like there's a drawback to waiting until your % goes as high as it can get ~ if the coup is successful, your relative influence doesn't go up all that much nor does your rival's drop all that much in return.

If I understand this correctly then, it seems that this mechanic is designed to give players the option whether or not to take a huge risk and possibly gain a Big bump in influence (with little chance) or a safe risk to get a minor increase.

Everyone has to decide on their own 'sweet spot' % I guess.


-Elgalad

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Yep, that's pretty much exactly it. For me, a coup is generally an act of desperation, since by the time it has much chance of success you can usually gain an alliance with one or two election-rigging attempts, and the risk both in influence lost and dead spy from an unsuccessful coup will basically lose you that CS for good (since you have an ever steeper hill to climb as your rival's influence increases). I'll do it if I have nothing to lose because I'm about to lose a diplo game (not often), or in an attempt to switch a CS to my side before entering a war with its current ally (since the spy wouldn't be any use in that CS while at war anyway, and my influence with it would be irrelevant), but that's pretty much it.

PhilBowles said:

Yep, that's pretty much exactly it. For me, a coup is generally an act of desperation, since by the time it has much chance of success you can usually gain an alliance with one or two election-rigging attempts, and the risk both in influence lost and dead spy from an unsuccessful coup will basically lose you that CS for good (since you have an ever steeper hill to climb as your rival's influence increases). I'll do it if I have nothing to lose because I'm about to lose a diplo game (not often), or in an attempt to switch a CS to my side before entering a war with its current ally (since the spy wouldn't be any use in that CS while at war anyway, and my influence with it would be irrelevant), but that's pretty much it.

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But those are all pretty good reasons to attempt a coupe.
To me a coupe should be a last ditch effort anyway to turn the tides and some crucial point, and now that I understand from other posters how the coupe works, ti makes perfect sense and fits well into the game imho.

Thatnks to all for the great info. OP

Frdm

Peng Qi said:

Well I guess then you might be stuck with a sedan.

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You can't know that. He might have van or maybe even a cabriolet...

Orgetorix said:

You can't know that. He might have van or maybe even a cabriolet...

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My spies ride around in GDR's with the weapons replaced with spying electronics. I'm not big on subtlety...

Peng Qi said:

Well I guess then you might be stuck with a sedan.

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You, sir, have won the thread.

I've noticed about a 1-to-1 ratio between change in influence and change in success rate for coups. That's just me though.

Here's a tip: get the chance to about 50%, take it, and win (hopefully) then immediately DoW an AI so that your new ally cannot be taken back.

It sort of stinks that CiV becomes a state of constant war being the best option in so many cases, but it's better than losing.

I never coup, rigging elections is a lot more predictable.
If you are trying to establish surveilance in a city with a constobulatory, police station, and Great Firewall, you probably aren't doing it right.

Wtf?

I had 109 influence with Sidon and Incans pulled a coup and I'm at 1 now? Hax less pls.

Tachii said:

Wtf?

I had 109 influence with Sidon and Incans pulled a coup and I'm at 1 now? Hax less pls.

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ohmehgawd, the AI totally got into your computer and hacked it and made himself get a coup that kicked your butt.

OmniPotent42 said:

I never coup, rigging elections is a lot more predictable.
If you are trying to establish surveilance in a city with a constobulatory, police station, and Great Firewall, you probably aren't doing it right.

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In many cases, rigging takes way too long between attempts. Again, the AI has far more resources than you (i.e., gold, which is all that is needed for almost anything). You'll never be able to compete head-to-head due to the cheats with each difficulty level. Therefore, the best option is to get ahead at some point (e.g., buy a CS out, use a coup, or wait for rigged election, or some combo of these) and then DoW so that your new ally cannot be flipped back again.

Frdmlover said:

But those are all pretty good reasons to attempt a coupe.

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True. But that's what a coup is - a quick but risky countermeasure on demand, not a reliable diplomatic tool or a route to diplo victory as commonly suggested.

Had a situation in my current game where I needed to use my two English spies to steal tech to get ahead, however Jakarta was on my doorstep with an army and I couldn't afford the chance an enemy might grab them, so I stuck a spy on election-rigging duty instead of tech stealing. Siam allied Jakarta about two turns before I was due to go to war with them (having agreed to a 10-turn wait with Hiawatha) - it was either a successful coup (59% chance, much less than I'd have liked) or "Sorry, I've changed my mind" (and war with Hiawatha would not have been pleasant).

The coup worked.

In many cases, rigging takes way too long between attempts. Again, the AI has far more resources than you (i.e., gold, which is all that is needed for almost anything). You'll never be able to compete head-to-head due to the cheats with each difficulty level. Therefore, the best option is to get ahead at some point (e.g., buy a CS out, use a coup, or wait for rigged election, or some combo of these) and then DoW so that your new ally cannot be flipped back again.

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A coup is never going to get you to a point where you're safe from an AI buy-out, and of course coups don't work with CSes you're already allied with. The best way to prevent AIs gaining influence is to gain more influence yourself, and regular election-rigging is very important in doing that. You can go to war with the other civ - but that only works as long as you remain allies with that CS, which requires regular input from you to prevent either natural loss of the alliance or, typically more importantly, other AIs with whom you aren't at war taking the CS as an ally (from which point it can be allied by your enemy). So whatever the scenario gaining influence in regular influxes is important, while coups have a niche use.