Cities: Skylines - Paradox Interactive Makes A SimCity

Yeah, Capitalism 2 is a totally different creature, the loan thing is the only thing in common with CiM2 really, and then still quite different as Capitalism is even more realistic while CiM2 does it much more smoothly and a lot simpler. One thing I think CiM2 does much better in this regard is that it has regular downpayments which gives a whole new dimension to managing your debt and also makes for less micromanagement.

If anyone should get the urge to play it however, I would recommend the new expansion called Capitalism Lab. The original creators tweaks and alterations built up over many years and released a year or so ago. Be warned that the company making it is now mainly a mobile and "casual" game developer who have opted for online DRM and poor sales and little attention probably means it has an uncertain future. But the new features and tweaks make the game so much more playable and interesting that it is worth it IMO, but again I'm a sucker for this sort of game.
 
I bought Capitalism II on Gamersgate awhile back. Haven't played it yet, though. I can definitely see it being a game where a manual would help. What I have played is Stardock's Corporate Machine, from 2001. While somewhat arcade-y, it's not easy. And the manual definitely was essentially to understanding what's going on. Admittedly in part due to a not-so-great UI, but also in part due to the concepts.

trader/warrior, what sort of DRM does Capitalism Lab have? I've found that games with too annoying of DRM I tend to not play with so many other options without the hassle (ex. DiRT with its Games for Windows Live DRM), so that's certainly a factor. "Online DRM" certainly doesn't sound promising. If it's Assassin's Creed II style with always-on, I'll definitely skip.

I do think there's a place for extended transportation management in a Sim City style game. Maybe not mandatory, but I've often thought over the years with SC3K and SC4 that it would be cool to be able to create subway and bus routes. You can sorta simulate that with the subway route layouts, but not as much as London actually having, say, the Hammersmith and City Line and the Piccadilly Line. And that is part of actual city management - if not the city itself, its transportation department is creating bus and subway lines to most efficiently serve the city.

Edit: With regards to loans being beneficial, that can be the case in Railroad Tycoon II, too. The loans have to be used to build sufficiently profitable routes, but it's definitely possible for it to work out long-term.

As for Sim City 4, I'd encourage someone to take up the challenge I've set up in the Sim City 4 succession succession to test that hypothesis. So far the city is growing like a beanstalk, but the spectre of Detroit is definitely on the horizon. Whether the city shows that taking out obscene amounts of debt winds up being beneficial or terrible remains up in the air. As Peck of Arabia describes:

This is quite an interesting one; you know how the game gently reminds you that slow steady expansion is the way to go? This city throws such caution to the wind! Built to rival Fort Consternation, La Métropole has a lot of catching up to do in a short period of time, so heavy debts and breakneck expansion are the way to go, in fact they're in the charter...

[/shameless advertising. but we really do need more mayors, please volunteer!]
 
what sort of DRM does Capitalism Lab have?

It's basically an online check at startup, you have to log into an account at the start of the game. The process itself is quick and easy, but there seems to be no offline mode for this singleplayer game. I did just try disconnecting my internet and it started up fine, but I think that has to do with me logging in properly a couple of minutes before, so no constant internet connection required at least.
 
The first dev diary is up, talks about roads and stuff. Mostly basic features any modern city building game should have, but I'm very excited nonetheless. They also mentioned in another thread that tomorrow they'll be having a live stream at 19:00 cest.

Anyways, link: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?802639-Cities-Skylines-Dev-Diary-1-Roads


And dev diary text for those who can't access PI forums or are too lazy to:

Hi guys and gals! Welcome to the exciting world of Cities: Skylines development diaries! My name is Henkka and you might remember me from such dev diaries as ”Making the levels” and ”The Map Editor” for Cities in Motion 2 and ”Tower Bridge” for Cities in Motion. While you are taking a break from enjoying the screenshots and discussions about Cities: Skylines, you can take a look at the development processes behind the awesome game developed by us, Colossal Order and published by our friends at Paradox Interactive.

Now, put on a helmet, crawl up in a cannon and get ready to be shot into the wonderful land of Devvies!

Basics of road building
When we started designing the road building tool we wanted it to be as versatile as possible, aiming to recreate the possibilities of Cities in Motion 2's road building tool. We also wanted to give the tool more accuracy so that creating square blocks for city centers would be easy.

When building the roads, the tool also creates the zoning grid on both sides of the road which indicates the area where zoneable buildings are built when the player uses the zoning tool. The grid is visible while building the roads which gives the player the ability to create optimal city blocks if they so choose.


Building a curved road.

Road building is straightforward in Cities: Skylines. The road building tool features build modes for straight, curved and freeform roads as well as a road upgrading tool. The first three options give versatility to your street layout and it is quite easy to switch from one build mode to another. The straight road tool has also a 90-degree snap. The road upgrade tool can be used to upgrade or downgrade roads. It can be used to upgrade a small road into a medium or large road or a small road without decorative elements into a road that has them.


Building a freeform road.

Road types
The game features several categories of roads from small roads and oneway roads to large roads and highways. Small roads are the basic road type for suburbs with slower speed limit and noise pollution. Medium roads and large roads can service larger amount of traffic but in turn generate more noise pollution. Oneway roads are a good alternative especially to basic roads and they also work as the road type for roundabouts. Highways are useful for connecting the different parts of a city together as well as the outside world when speed is essential and the effects of noise pollution are not an issue. There are decoration variations for most of the road types from small roads with decorative grass and trees to highways with sound barriers that block some of the noise pollution from spreading. In general the decoration variations cost more to build and maintain but in turn they create less noise pollution and increase land value.


City center with medium road that has decorative trees in the middle. You can really change the look and feel of the different parts of the city with the various roads.


Oneway roads and and medium roads with decorative grass in the middle.


Small road with decorative grass.

Parking spaces and bus stops
Certain road types have also parking spaces next to the lanes. The small road has one lane per direction with parking spaces on both sides of the road. Citizens' personal vehicles can be seen parked alongside these roads all over the city. All medium road types have also parking spaces and the non-decorative variation of the large road has them as well. Highways do not permit either parking or zoning next to them.


Parking spaces on a small road.

In Cities: Skylines placing bus stops creates bus bays so that the buses do not hold back other traffic while they are making their stops. The depth of the bay depends on the road type and possible decorative elements. Roads that have parking spaces require narrower bus bays as they can take advantage of the already wider lanes and parking spaces. Highways do not allow bus stops.


Bus bay on a small road. A few citizens seem to be waiting for the bus to arrive.


Bus bay in another part of the town where they have roads with decorative grass. Since the decoration takes space, it takes out the parking spaces and creates deeper bus bays on return.

Bridges and elevated roads
Bridges are an important part of road building, whether it is about building a large bridge over a river or getting the road over a chasm in the mountain region. In Cities: Skylines bridges are automatically build when the conditions are met such as water or steep cliffs. The type of the bridge is related to the type of the road. We wanted to give variety to the bridge designs through the road sizes. Small road creates a simple bridge with bridge railings to keep citizens from plummeting to their deaths. Large road and highway on the other hand create large suspension bridges and so on. The cost to build bridges (and elevated roads) is higher than roads on the ground which makes building bridges a more strategic decision.


Medium bridge over river. The bridge styles change according to the size of the road used.


Highway bridges have tall pillars to give them the needed mass and look.

Elevated roads are also featured in the game. Accessing the elevated roads is simple: using PGUP and PGDW it is possible to raise and lower the roads and this goes with every road type except the gravel road. Not only do elevated roads look great in large cities but they also offer a way to circumvent busy city centers to avoid traffic congestion. Elevated roads create pillars which need to be taken into account when building the roads since the pillars take space on the ground.


Medium elevated road crossing over the main street in the city.


Building elevated roads is straightforward. Just press the PGUP and PGDW keys to set the height. Also note that this particular city has left-hand traffic.

Highways and ramps
Highways are the first connection point to the outside world in a new city. But they also serve as a quick way to connect neighborhoods and population centers together over long distances. We designed the highways so that they are built separately, one direction at a time. This gives the players possibilities to design complex highway solutions where one group of lanes is not held back by the other and the roads can follow the terrain formations more intuitively. Separate lanes also give great choices when building ramps and highway interchanges.

Building highway ramps uses its own Ramp tool allowing all kinds of interchanges to be created as the player sees fit. Elevated interchanges are possible and the elevated versions follow the same rules as any elevated road: remember that the pillars take space!


Building ramp structures is cool and you can let your imagination fly because the versatility of the tool allows all kinds of designs to be made.

Right/Left side traffic
This has been a feature that has been requested from the time when the Earth was still a young planet drifting in space in the early years of the solar system. I am happy to announce that in Cities: Skylines it is possible to determine whether the traffic is right- or left-handed. In Cities: Skylines one of the key points in road building and the behavior of vehicles was to make it possible to change the side of the traffic easily. Instead of complex, hand-crafted animations for public transport vehicles and such all is handled through code which gives a lot more freedom compared to manually animating each vehicle to work with both right- and left-handed traffic.


- Henkka also known as an artist, designer and level designer at Colossal Order
 
Sounds pretty good! I especially like the freedom with highways. Sounds much improved from Sim City 4 (and let's not mention SC5 where you can't build them at all). But the regular roads sound pretty versatile, too. The elevated roads, bus bays, and decorative options are all nice touches.

On the wishlist, I wonder if they'll have sunken roads as well as elevated ones? As in, not tunnels, but below the usual ground level in an area. There's one of them where I live with a shopping area on top of it from which you might well not even know you're over a road, and they're building another one as well for traffic flow reasons. There are pillars to support what's above the road, but it's easier to place pillars to support the buildings around the roads than pillars to support the road around buildings (hopefully the elevated roads do allow some building underneath, even if somewhat limited).
 
I've never played CiM (actually had a free trial for doing a survey, but I forgot to install it and it expired :(), but it sounds like they are using their experience with more realistic mass transit and traffic models to build this from the ground up (like the bus ports).
 
I've never played CiM (actually had a free trial for doing a survey, but I forgot to install it and it expired :(), but it sounds like they are using their experience with more realistic mass transit and traffic models to build this from the ground up (like the bus ports).

The devs said on the forums (or was it the reddit AMA?) that they're trying to build a simulation and then have the rest of the game, such as the visuals, based on that, rather than make a game and then make the simulation based on such constraints like other city builders. I think their experience with CiM will definitely come in handy here, as long as they don't make things too complicated, but my impression is that they're aware of this and finding a good balance.
 
I have to admit, this really looks pretty exciting. Hope it can live up to it's potential :)
 
I watched the live stream yesterday. I'm really like the look of this game so far.

I just have to remember that I shouldn't get annoyed if this doesn't have everything we've wanted in a city builder since SC4!
 
I watched the live stream yesterday. I'm really like the look of this game so far.


Saw the stream too, I'm really impressed. Frankly, my impression is if they released the game in its alpha state now, it'll at worst be comparable to the new SimCity after they got their servers fixed. Actually, I think it'd probably be better.



I just have to remember that I shouldn't get annoyed if this doesn't have everything we've wanted in a city builder since SC4!

Indeed. The comparisons to SimCity are inevitable, both the good (to SC4) and the bad (recent DimCity), but I think the devs are trying their best to have something that SimCity veterans will feel comfortable with, but not be simply a clone.



I haven't been this excited for an actual game in a while. I think the only game that would top my excitement levels for this would be TES VI.
 
At this stage, from what they're promising, I think this is going to be even better than SimCity 4. The only downside I've heard so far is that regions are confirmed to not be in the game, though the huge map sizes (36 km^2) partly make up for it.
 
At this stage, from what they're promising, I think this is going to be even better than SimCity 4. The only downside I've heard so far is that regions are confirmed to not be in the game, though the huge map sizes (36 km^2) partly make up for it.

No night time.
 
Night time would be a nice feature, but it's not as important some of the core mechanics they're dealing with. At the minimum, my impression it will more or less be on par with SomCity 4 in that regard.

Though I do want night time eventually, even if in a future expansion or something - the night time in SimCity 4 was kinda meh, but I did like seeing the sunsets and sunrises.
 
New dev diary on zoning: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?804803-Cities-Skylines-Dev-Diary-2-Zoning

Basically nothing that revolutionary or new for a city builder, but I'm not complaining. Some users on the forum are voicing a desire for medium density, which I agree with, but I think the devs have mentioned elsewhere that they might do that.

Hi there, you city builder aficionados! Once again it is the time for another exciting story from the pages of developer diaries. I am your humble host, Henkka, and I am here to talk about zoning. So, gather around by the fire and let your imagination fly...

Oh, and in case you missed the previous entry to the dev diaries, here it is: Dev Diary 1: Roads.

Basics of zoning (or "Why zoning instead of manually placing all buildings?")
If the roads are the bones of the city, then the zones are the meat around the bones. Very early on in the development process it was clear that we wanted the game to feature a zoning tool instead of placing the myriad of the regular buildings manually. With zoning the player's job is to rule where the different types of buildings appear but it is the citizens' (that is the game's) job to actually move in and build the new houses, shops and factories, all according to the different needs of the city. The player can determine what the city requires and when by using the RCI indicator in the GUI.

While discussing the possible ways to build a city a few ways emerged: placing buildings individually and zoning. While individual placing of buildings seemed interesting and in theory allowed the player to create the exact city they wanted it became clear that creating large cities would be difficult and cumbersome. The sheer amount of buildings needed to place would turn the game into an editor rather than a city builder. Also problems would arise with the needs of the city conflicting with the artistic visions of the player: the player would want to build 10 tenements in an area while the game calculated the city required only 3. Communicating this kind of information that is always changing as the game progresses would be impractical. And as the city grows and new technological levels are reached, the player would need to manually upgrade all the buildings in the city which in the end would mean going through thousands upon thousands of buildings.

Zoning on the other hand simulates more closely city planning on the higher level where the city planners lay down guidelines and rules for citizens and companies to work in. We decided that zoning is the way to go in a game of this scale. And clever city planners can take advantage of the various zoning tools and have more control over the zoneable buildings than just painting large areas if they so choose. For example, instead of zoning the full depth of the zone grid (4 cells) the player can zone thinner slices, like 2 cell deep areas, that spawn smaller building fitting the 2 cell deep restriction.

Zone types
Cities: Skylines features three main categories for zoning: residential, commercial and workplaces. All three are divided into two types, low and high density for residential and commercial, and industry and offices for workplaces.


Residential areas are the backbone of your city. Detached houses such as the ones on low density residential zones are inviting to older people and families with kids. High density residential apartment buildings on the other hand serve the needs of younger adults who value cheaper living costs among other things.

Each zone type serves different groups of citizens even though some overlapping occurs. For example, low density residential building are favored by families with young children and seniors while high density buildings are favored by young adults and families with no children. Low and high density commercial building work in a similar way: different citizen groups choose one zone type over the other if both are available in the city and can be accessed by good road connections.

While most of the workplaces are in the industrial and office zones commercial zones create workplaces as well even though their main function is to sell goods to citizens and accept goods deliveries from local industry. The first to unlock in the workplaces is the industrial zone which creates factories of all sizes according to workplace demand. Industrial efficiency is connected to the quality of workforce (workers' education) as well as their ability to ship goods they produce and if all the stores and shops in the city have full storages industry can stagnate until the issue is solved by providing new businesses or outside connections to ship their goods to. Offices, just like the high density residential and commercial zones, unlocks later in the game when the city is able to provide workers who are adequetly educated to perform in those jobs.


Zoning some high density commercial areas.

Zoning tools
In Cities: Skylines there are various tools for zoning, each having its uses.

Fill tool lets the player zone large areas on one click. This tool is especially useful with city blocks of small and medium sizes since it can fill them on one go.

Marquee tool allows the player to click and drag an area of their choosing and zone huge areas at once. The margquee tool aligns itself with the grid if the drawing of the area starts next to a zone grid.

The game also features two zoning brushes, a small and a large brush. With these brushes the player can paint zoned areas. The only thing that needs to keep in mind is that the zones have to reach the road or otherwise the buildings won't spawn.


Large zoning brush in action.

Building leveling – Residential
Each zoned building has a level. This refers to the education level of the inhabitants, the land value in the neighborhood and the services available close by. As the citizens are educated and the overall quality of life increases with new city service offerings, the buildings gain levels. Lower levels have fewer requirements, for example they require only some of the city services. Lower levels on the other hand have bigger negative impact on the surroundings from polluting factories to residential buildings generating more garbage. The highest levels require full city service coverage as well as great commercial and workplace connections to keep up their standard of living.

Building leveling – Commercial
Similarly to residential buildings commercial buildings require that their neighborhood is at a suitable standard to level up and be able to offer services to higher level citizens (level 1 has general stores while level 3 has designer shops and so on). In most cases the bonuses granted by the presence of city services and the high enough land value will eventually lead commercial buildings to achieve conditions to level up. Unlike residential levels, commercial and industrial buildings with higher levels require workers with higher education. Almost every workplace has some level 0 jobs but in order to get the most out of a 3rd level workplace it requires staff with proper levels of education.

Building leveling – Industrial / Office
Workplaces like industrial buildings and offices level up when the surrounding conditions are met. Land value plays an important role for achieving higher levels and worker education levels are equally important to be able to run the businesses after said leveling has happened. Industry in particular experiences drastic changes when reaching highest level: goods produced are of the highest quality and pollution which is a trademark of lower level factories and such is a thing of the past.


Offices don't create pollution which is why they can be safely zoned next to a residential area.

Offices unlock at a later stage since they require even more educated personnel to be functional. Once the player reaches this level and is able to really start educating their citizens with the higher level of schools they can choose to switch to office workplaces instead of industry on the expense that it might not create as much tax income as the more polluting yet profitable regular industry.

- Henkka also known as an artist, designer and level designer at Colossal Order
 
I think Paradox may be onto something here.
 
If the way buildings develop and level up is well made and getting your buildings to high levels is challenging enough, I can see how medium density would be unneccesary. A citybuilder where you are preventing better development rather than encouraging it is really missing it's mark a bit. However diversity in zoning options is also something I was hoping for, we'll see how it turn out I guess.
 
People keep asking for mixed zoning too, as in shops with houses above them. I would be a nice feature but I can live without. As for the people wanting medium density again it would be nice but I don't mind to much as we can have some control on building leveling using districts (seen people mention it but haven't found the details myself) that I guess will be applied like the zones in CiM2.

My only real issue is that the big skyscrapers etc will only be ploppable and not grow spontaneously from zoning, or at least thats how I understand it.
 
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