Question about reputation hits.

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

Ancient age, or medieval age pre-astronomy. Suppose you are the Romans (what else?

) On a nearby island, connected by sea tiles, there's France.

France has the Great Lighthouse, so it can trade via sea tiles. France creates a colony on your island, and build a harbor in it. You build a road connecting the French settlement to your existing road network, thus establishing a trade route between Rome and Paris. You decide to trade some goods.

Then, while the trade treaty is still active, the french colony flips to Rome. Since Rome cannot trade via sea squares at the moment, the trade treaty ends abruptly.

The question is: do you suffer a reputation hit or not?

Pentium · Mar 15, 2005

Doesn't the city keep its harbor?

Edit: Oh no, i'm sorry. :blush:

I dodn't see that you can't trade over sea.

I think you do. Try making a gpt deal and you'll see.

thetrooper · Mar 15, 2005

Well, that's a tR1cKy question

Oversea trade depends on a tech, not the Lighthouse?

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

No, you were right. I forgot a key point. If the harbor is kept, France can reach it. It's sufficient that ONE of the two civs has the ability. Ok, let's suppose that the harbor is no more in the city. What happens?

OOPS! Crosspost. French ability on trading via sea squares depends on the Lighthouse at the moment. We are supposing Astronomy hasn't been discovered yet.

thetrooper · Mar 15, 2005

Microbe could have the answer here

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

Checked. Nope. It's a good covering of the rep hit issue, but it doesn't go so much in the details. It reports that when the route is interrupted you suffer a rep hit, but there's at least 1 situation in which the rep remains intact (personal experience).

DBear · Mar 15, 2005

I had another one in my CotM come up. I was trading a neighbor gems for ivory, when the road connecting my gems got wiped out by a volcano.

Several turns later, the neighbor comes calling with a new trade deal and they want me to kick in some gpt. Sounds like my rep's still good.

cidknee · Mar 15, 2005

tR1cKy said:
France has the Great Lighthouse, so it can trade via sea tiles. France creates a colony on your island, and build a harbor in it.

how does a colony build a harbor?

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

bad word choice - it builds a town.

cidknee · Mar 15, 2005

ohhh ok. i see now.now it makes sense. I had actually assumed that but dont like to assume.

Hooray · Mar 15, 2005

I don't see why the trade route would be broken at all so long as you have a harbor of your own. Maybe YOU can't trade over sea tiles, but France still can. I know that if you own the Great Lighthouse you can trade with other civs over sea tiles even if they don't have Astronomy yet. The same should apply if an AI civ owns it.

But whether that's true or not, I'm pretty sure you would get a rep hit if the trade route were broken in such a way. Even if it's an accident, the computer still blames you for a broken trade in nearly every instance.

bonscott · Mar 15, 2005

You definately take a rep hit if you lose a resource/luxury. Just had this happen in my current game. I had 2 spices. Culture of a nearby civ engulfed both spices so I lost not only mine but the one I was trading to Egypt. Immediately Egypt was annoyed at me. And since then, any civ that had contact with Egypt at the time will no longer make any trades with me that includes a luxury, resource or gpt. It's gotta be cash up front or a tech to get anything. Kinda sucks.

In this case I don't think your trade would be broken since France can trade with you. You should see this effect yourself. As soon as you can trade across the ocean for example, you can trade with anyone on the other side of the world (as long as they have a harbor) even if they don't have the tech to do so themselves. You can most easily see this effect when it comes to trading maps. Even if you don't have the ability to trade maps, if the AI in question does, you can trade world maps.

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

Wait... i realize i made some confusion about the issue. I put some unnecessary things in the question and left something that i should have said. Let's try this way:

I'm on a landmass, with NO HARBOR. France is on another island. France build a city on my continent, then build a harbor in that city. I build a road connecting the french settlement to my empire, thus establishing a trade route between me and France.

I make a deal with France, involving the exchange of luxuries. Say i provide them wines and they give me spices. After a few turns, the french settlement flips to me, and the harbor is lost. The active trade treaty is broken. Do i take a reputation hit or not?

The answer is not academic. Some people said that, when the trade route is broken, i take a rep hit. Well, not always. I know, by personal experience, of at least 1 case in which there's no rep hit. Apparently, it's the reason why the trade route has been broken that decides if i take the rep hit or not.

Remember: it's an hypotethic situation, not a game in progress. Thus, suggestions like "try a gpt deal and see" won't be of much help

Theoden · Mar 15, 2005

If someone is directly to blame, then they will take the rep hit. This could be if France declared war etc.
If you can't blame anyone directly, like if the AI sold it's harbor, if a third party declares war or if a road is pillaged, then it depends on who trades what. If you both give luxuries/resources then you take a rep hit. If only you export luxes then you also take a rep hit. If only the AI exports luxes then they will take the rep hit.
At least, I'm pretty sure it is that way.

homeyg · Mar 15, 2005

Correct me if I'm wrong, but The Great Lighthouse does not enable over sea trade so this situation couldn't have come about in the first place!

ainwood · Mar 15, 2005

Ok - I'll correct you

The GL does allow trade over sea tiles.

@tricky - if in doubt, you can always refuse to take the flipping city. I suspect that you do take a rep hit however.

homeyg · Mar 15, 2005

Well, my knowlege of CivIII must be way out of date. How come they don't mention that in the civilopedia?

tR1cKy · Mar 15, 2005

And so the general opinion is that i do suffer the rep hit, but it seems that there's no absolute certainity on that. Ok, i suspect that the final words couldn't be said unless someone finds itself in such a situation during the game and check its rep before and after the event... anyway, thanks to all for the answers! :thumbsup:

soriyya · Mar 16, 2005

If France was supplying you with a luxury (for say GPT or a tech or whatever) then if that luxury got out of France's hands (via flip), it would be "their fault" and hence their rep hit.

If you were shipping the French some other lux or whatnot and their town flips to you and retains the harbor, you should still be able to trade with them and thus *your* trade route isn't broken.

But by all means, test it...

Arska · Aug 26, 2010

Well, a really old topic, but it's rep related...

Situation: I've made military alliances (MA) with several civs against the Arabs. I don't share a border with Arabs and I'd like to achieve it. This would mean invading Zulus, one of my MA partners (I'm giving gpt to Zulus for the deal). If I do this, would it give me a rep hit?

And to take the question a bit further, do I get a rep hit in the following cases (assuming no gpt deals)?

1) MA with Zulus is under 20 turns old
2) MA at least 20 turns old

And finally, if I invade Zulus, are they more likely to make peace with Arabs and, furthermore, to ally with Arabs against me?

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