El-J 03 ~ Going Rogue, AoI Style

Maimonides said:

(I order a Judicial System in 23 Turns which should be more efficient than a Factory in the same time. The city is losing 1 Shield & 8 Beakers per Turn to Corruption.)

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I feel the need to ask for clarification here. It was my understanding that things such as factories, coal plants, subways, etc. that say they give one shield REALLY mean that they give one shield PER TILE that is producing at least one shield. So for most cities, this would pan out to 8 or 9 shields per turn. Correct?

Theryman said:

I feel the need to ask for clarification here. It was my understanding that things such as factories, coal plants, subways, etc. that say they give one shield REALLY mean that they give one shield PER TILE that is producing at least one shield. So for most cities, this would pan out to 8 or 9 shields per turn. Correct?

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Ugh. I wish I had known that.

I just tested it by opening my last save & selling the Factory in Hamhung. Turns out the Factory ADDS 1 SHIELD PER TURN FOR EVERY WORKED TILE ALREADY PRODUCING 2 SHIELDS OR MORE... Hamhung lost 4 Shields per Turn when I sold it's Factory because it was working 4 tiles that produced 2 or more Shields.

The pedia says only that it adds 1 Shield per Turn... I assume the Tea Plantation, Saw Mill & other Improvements that claim to give "1 Shield per Turn" have incorrect pedia entries, too.

If I had known that, some of my build choices, like the one you quoted, would have been different. Thanks for the heads up!

El Justo, you might wanna add this to the bug list.

Kibitzer:

It is a function of cash. In AoI they have the cash and the knowledge to sabotage. In std games, you do not see it in many games as the AI does not have the knowledge till later in the game, when the human is turning the screws.

It is not a good use of money, unless you are in a race to get the wonder. IIRC it only causes that turns shields to be lost. I have used it a few times to slow down the Manhatten, till I could over run the city.

Shield clarification:

The civlopedia is fine as is. What it refers to is the setting in the editor. (When setting the production value in the editor, that is the format it follows; the civlopedia simply reflects what the setting is in the editor).

Given that factories are prereqs for other improvements (manufacturing plants, which in turn are prereqs for the next wave of wonders), I don't see the big harm here. Is 4 shields a turn significant on its own? No, but it adds up. Also don't forget that shipyards are coming, which will be a big boost for production in most pop centers in Japan. Get that going with the underwater cable at Kagoshima and production is going to be big there. Colonial locations get their own version of shipyard towards the end of the era usually, unless it is a priority to get it done fast (at the end of the colonial branch). For us, it will be later on most likely.

Let's take an example:

In standard Civilization III Conquests game, Civilopedia states that a Factory adds 50% more production to a city that builds it. In the Editor, there is showing in Production dropdown-box a number '2'.

So if AoI V4.0 Civilopedia states that something adds 2 production to the city, it is actually adding 50% more shields to the city's production. So if we decrease it to 1, it adds 25% more shields to the city's production.

I hope this clears it up.

Arexander said:

Let's take an example:

In standard Civilization III Conquests game, Civilopedia states that a Factory adds 25% more production to a city that builds it. In the Editor, there is showing in Production dropdown-box a number '2'.

So if AoI V4.0 Civilopedia states that something adds 2 production to the city, it is actually adding 50% more shields to the city's production. So if we decrease it to 1, it adds 25% more shields to the city's production.

I hope this clears it up.

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This was always my understanding of what production multipliers did as well.

Maimonides said:

Ugh. I wish I had known that.
I just tested it by opening my last save & selling the Factory in Hamhung. Turns out the Factory ADDS 1 SHIELD PER TURN FOR EVERY WORKED TILE ALREADY PRODUCING 2 SHIELDS OR MORE... Hamhung lost 4 Shields per Turn when I sold it's Factory because it was working 4 tiles that produced 2 or more Shields.
The pedia says only that it adds 1 Shield per Turn... I assume the Tea Plantation, Saw Mill & other Improvements that claim to give "1 Shield per Turn" have incorrect pedia entries, too.
If I had known that, some of my build choices, like the one you quoted, would have been different. Thanks for the heads up!
El Justo, you might wanna add this to the bug list.

Click to expand...

Eh, it actually was brought up in the main thread a while back ... but don't worry about it. You live, you learn, you get back to comp-stomping.

Happy New Year's, all!

@ Maimonides:

Love your writing style and the great images for flavor! Keep up the good work!

Just a pointer that I think you caught already:

-Rush the Judicial System in Kuril Islands for 640 gold. City is losing 3 Shields & 12 beakers per Turn to Corruption so this is badly needed. Convert all the Engineers to Taxmen.

.......

-Ryukyu Islands are a problem. Next build comes in 21 Turns... Can't afford a rush. All Citizens are Scientists, but I can't convert them to Engineers without losing Mountain Guns I in 2 Turns. For now, all hope lies with that Paiwan Worker mining it's Coconut Plains.

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Your issue with the Ryukus could be solved with Engineers: You science loss could have been made up with the taxmen that you had just set after rushing builds. I know that the next turn you fixed the Ryukus and probably managed it just fine after that.

The other thing I noticed was that you were doing good rushes on your builds, but were you short-rushing too? Whomp did an excellent job of short-rushing during his turnset, and demonstrated it well. Short-rushing is more effective because you still get production during your turn cycle and if you filled all of the shield with a straight rush, anything that would have been produced is lost. You convert to taxmen and get some of it back (2gp) but it cost you (4gp) to rush. If you can set your rushes to fill all but one turn of production you save 2gp per specialist that you could have reassigned, and in rushing terms a civil-engineer is saving you 8gp (2shields x 4 gp rush cost). Somebody please correct me if my math is wrong here.

So the ideal rush is going one turn of production to put some shields in the box, find something that takes a little less time/shield than your build target. Switch to that and rush it, then switch back to the build target and have one turn of production on it. You've made your production in 2 turns as efficiently as possible.

nice work all.

week 45 1898 ~ turn 1
move large stack of workers in the Home Islands north to mine the hill tile near Akita

move the smaller stack in the home Islands north as well to mine the tile near Sapporo

move workers in Korea to trench tile SW of Hamhung to build mine in 8 turns

all the workers were finished other jobs. so these were all new jobs.

pics forthcoming - they're on my pc at home --

insert: domestic advisor screen

IBT
Spain declares war against France
Brits bombard Sakhalin w/ a few cruisers

week 49 1898 ~~ turn 2
Sendai builds uni, set it to research lab in 8

Niigata builds hospital, set it to coastal fort in 2

Pusan is starving - tried to MM the food tiles and the city workers. nada. it's maxed out. some russian ships were squatting on a coast tile the previous turn i draft a citizen and move it north to seal off the route southward on the peninsula.

Seoul builds coastal fort, set it to Jap Inf in 5 turns.

rename the TR in Pusan to (TR) Kobayashi

IBT
more of the same - RN lays siege upon Sakhalin

week 1 1899 ~~~ turn 3
we welcome in the new year with a stock exchange in Hamhung. set it to copper mine co. in 5

Seoul, Pusan, and Hamhung spawn RMs. ship'em back to the Home Islands for some VPs and gold.

T'aipei builds hospital. set it to coal mine and MM it down to 4 turns

a Propaganda Campaign in T'aipei has upset its citizens!

catch the Brazilians trying to plant a spy

drop science down to 10%, Armored Cruisers II in 1 turn

Russian Petropavlosk BB + single TR spotted off SE part of Home Islands. where's it going?

Tokyo spawns it's annual Civ Eng unit. load it onto a TR and ship it off to Korea to join the worker stack building the mine near Hamhung

hurry naval base in Akita for 472G

IBT
Austria-Hungary demands 100G and i give. don't want to tangle quite yet w/ them and Germany. soon though. i think we need just a little more time since our military assets are rather meager at this point.

more RN bombardment at Sakhalin

week 5 1899 ~~~~ turn 4
Armored Cruisers II discovered. set science to 20th Cent Med in 4 turns @ 20%

Chem Weapons Program I built in Tokyo. we'll get some Chlorine Gas Shells sounds exotic. set new build for Jap Inf in 2

Osaka builds coal mine, set it to Jap Inf in 5

Kagoshima builds sports stadium, set it to Jap Inf in 3

Niigata builds coastal fort, set it to Kashima class BB in 4 turns

more starvation at Pusan

set workers to build road on the newly built mine tile near Akita

IBT
Cuba and Spain sign peace treaty; nothing changed hands according to a quick map scan.

Russia and Ottomans sign peace deal too. didn't see anything change hands here either.

more RN bombs fall on Sakhalin.

Russian BB and TR move across the bottom part of the Home Islands towards Korea.

week 9 1899 ~~~~~ turn 5
move around some of the workers. set to finish off mine near Sapporo

rush a Kashima BB in Niigata for 543G. we need some big guns.

MM Kuril Islands to get law enforcement syst in 2 turns

IBT
nothing; RN pulls out of Sakhalin and moves south towards Sea of Japan

week 13 1899 ~~~~~~ turn 6
Sapporo builds manf plant. set it to sports stadium in 4. we need culture gains here to compete w/ Ivan

Tokyo builds Jap Inf, set it to build another in 2

Hamhung builds copper mining co. set it to publishing co in 4. we need culture gains here too imo. better to focus on this now instead of when the bullets start flying

Niigata builds Kashima class BB. set it to build another in 4 turns. we should try to strive for localized superiorirty, at least, in the Sea of Japan (spotted the one russian BB nearby and that's it for large enemy capital ships)

Pusan continues to starve

Brits seems to be moving out somewhere around Shanghai. Diadem CA x 4 and TR x 2 spotted

Russians move out from Vladivostok i presume and put some ships into Sea of Japan

set workers to finish off mine near Sapporo

ps-pics to follow later

here is the sav:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/./downloads.php?do=file&id=13986

current lineup:

at bat: 2.) easyhasaids

on deck:
3.) Arexander
4.) Klyden
5.) Adler17

ill post the turns soon but i say with spain at war with france this could be a good opportunity to take the Philippines.

I may have missed something but trabzon has been razed

someone did not install the no raze patch then...

we are seriously short on military assets. no way we take the PI w/ what we have now. iirc, we have something like 9 or 10 infantry units total, no arty, and no reserves.

It looks like it happened sometime in the Week 25 Turnset (along with the British holding T'bilisi).

Agree on the Military situation. Maybe in a turnset or two we can make our first strike ... although I am curious as to what the Spanish have in the Philippenes.

couldn't hurt to take a peek into Manila. that will surely be much better defended than the rest of the archipelago.

a few things :

each SG player should definitely have the no raze patch going. let me know if you have issues getting it to run. there is a down and dirty read me inside the AoI folder. refer to that first if you are not familiar w/ it.

when posting in-game screenies - save them as png files. Vuldacon surely would pull his hair out if he saw some of those jpeg's you guys posted he is the creator of all of the sweet looking gfx files like the interface, splashes, terrain, resources, and a whole bunch more (all but the units really).

Week 13 1899
-Rush tea plantation in akita for 456g
-rush research lab in sendai for 752g
-rush research lab in ryuku for 1032g

IBT
Filipino natives declare war on the spanish.

Week 17 1899
-Akita builds tea plantation set to research lab in 4
-Sendai completes research lab set to tea plantation in 6
-Kagoshima completes japanese infantry set to build another in 3
-Taipei completes coal mine set to japanese infantry in 9
-seoul completes japanese infantry set to coal mine in 4
-Kuril completes law enforcement and ryukue completes research lab set both to -coastal fortress in 3

Mine completed near Sapporo then a road on the tile move workers to mine hill east of the city

Mine completed near hamhung send workers to mine coal near seoul in 4 turns

IBT
nothing

Week 21 1899
-Complete research of 20th century medicine start researching Light cruisers I in 4 turns
-Tokyo completes infantry set to build another in 2

IBT
nada

Week 25 1899
-osaka completes infantry set to kashima class in 3 turns
-Starvation at pusan and growth stops at 18 population. it also completes stock exchange set to coal mine in 25 use engineers to get it down to 10

IBT
nothing

week 29 1899
-Sapporo completes stadium set to publishing company in 3
-Tokyo completes infantry set for another in 2
-Kagoshima completes infantry set in to kashima class in 2. Kagoshima now has a food shortage.
-Hamhung completes publishing company set to sports stadium in 5
-Niigata completes kashima bb set to build another in 4
-Kuril islands completes coastal fortress set to financial institution in 7
-Ryuku completes coastal fortress set to TR to bring worker to mine the other island tile

-rush tea plantation in sendai for 552g

IBT
nothin

Week 33 1899
-Akita completes research lab set to publishin company in 3
-Sendai completes tea plantation set to 75mm krupp in 2 turns
-Seoul completes coal mine set to infantry in 4
-Ryuku finishes steam transport set to stock exchange in 6
-mine completed near sapporo

Now with the filipinos at war with spain i feel we should start building up our capital ships and infantry for a potential intervention

Arexander is up
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13989

... You know how Pusan was starving? Could we have scrounged some extra Shields by Drafting some units and using them for Disband -> Short Rush?

nice easy! well done

not sure about the starvation issue. i tried MM'ing the citizens and could not get a better situation than the one that was in there (ie 'worked' tiles). the only thing i can think of would be to put the irrigation tile back onto the Livestock tile (?) there's a mine there now.

also - not sure if it was built already but the Aspirin great discovery wonder is now available (+2 free techs).

roster:

at bat : 3.) Arexander

on deck:
4.) Klyden
5.) Adler17
6.) Donkeyman

screens from my 6 turn run:

domestic advisor screen from week 45 1898


Bonzai!! happy new year 1899!!


and the kewlest of all the wonder splashes it's a dog belonging to a British officer in the field during WW1.

I'll play it as soon as I can. Maybe even now.

I think aspirin has been built already it wasnt available when i tried to build it in tokyo

ok, thanks.

... That dog looks like it's wearing a sock on its head.