[Religion and Revolution]: Further Native Nations

Schmiddie, coloniafan and myself would do the work for further Native Nations.
All 3 of us are pretty much open minded for both variants.

Thus I suggest the following compromise:
(If there is no veto from any team member ...)

If colonialfan should create bios for 3 more Native Nations before Pre-Release-Testing of Release 1 starts (in a few weeks), we will implement these.
These 3 will however be the absolutely last Native Nations we will add.

@colonialfan:
If you want to, make a first suggestion for the last 3 Native Nations.
If the team agrees, you could create bios for these.

@team:
Everybody ok with that compromise ?
(If not, simply tell it.)

raystuttgart said:

If colonialfan should create bios for 3 more Native Nations before Pre-Release-Testing of Release 1 starts (in a few weeks), we will implement these.

Click to expand...

I can get three native civs to you by mid April, say the 14th, depending on what civs we choose.

raystuttgart said:

@colonialfan:
If you want to, make a first suggestion for the last 3 Native Nations.
If the team agrees, you could create bios for these.

Click to expand...

Sure. Just a few questions.

1. What continents do we want them from? I don't want to cause balancing issues.
2. What leaderheads do we have left available?

Maybe one of the north, one of the central and one of the south?

For the north I like one of these: Shoshone, Comanche, Cheyenne

But this is only my personal view, the team may decide.

If it fits the balancing, I would suggest 2 north and 1 south
There are not too many good candidates left in the central area

Ok, guys we still have these leaderheads

Low Quality 1

Acceptable Quality 1
Acceptable Quality 2
Acceptable Quality 3

Good Quality 1
Good Quality 2
Good Quality 3

---------------------
I would also suggest:

2 North, 1 South <-- Should be ok for our Balancing
or
1 North, 1 Central, 1 South

If we don't find a propper leaderhead for the North, we could change an existing one...this should be no big problem.

2 North and 1 South is ok for me.

Schmiddie said:

2 North and 1 South is ok for me.

Click to expand...

For me both variants would be ok, too.

A) 2 North, 1 South
B) 1 North, 1 Central, 1 South

I guess, we first let colonialfan make suggestions and then decide based on that.

I want to ask about a screen - I think it is called Military Advisor - the one with all the leaderheads along the bottom, a big map and a list of individual units down the left had side.

With all the new natives tribes we are using more colors - more shades of the same primary color and darker shades than we were previously.

This screen is used to indicate where all the tribes are located - you select a leaderhead and their area (or units) appear on the full map as colored squares. The map terrain on this screen has the same shading variations as the main map:
- your own cultural area (and a little around it is bright),
- areas you haven't explored are blacked out, and
- areas you have explored, but are away from your area are in between (let's call them greyed out).

The issues I have with this screen concern the greyed out areas of the full map:
- when you select a leaderhead with a dark color shade the units area are barely visible, sometimes I have to select the leader on and off a few times to pick up what is changing.
- when you select several leaderheads with similar color shades the units / areas aren't very easy to distinguish from each other.

My question:
Is it possible to make the greyed out area of the map lighter/brighter so the colors stand out more? (of course without interfering with what information lists on the left hand side as individually visible units).

@Schmiddie:

Your changes to colours and flags are wonderful.
I also like the new background of Serpent Quechquemitl.

Could you also take a look at the background of Machipara, please ?
(It looks a little bit too much like a tropical island.)

@Schmiddie:

I found a mod, that seems to have some graphics for Natives, that might be useful.

Especially the one with the eagle-like headpiece might be interesting.

see here:

Hi guys,

I've done a little research for the three remaining civs and come up with a few options, based on balancing , appropriate looking leaderheads, geographical placement and available biographical/cultural info.

I've included a map to help explain my choices. It it is very crude and the placement of civs is only a rough approximate but it gives you a general idea.




Option 1 - 2 North American Civs / 1 South American Civ

North American civs

1. Shoshone - They could occupy the great basin area that is currently unrepresented.
2. Naz Perce - Could be used but are the least similar to the leaderheads we have.


Would be a better match for the Shoshone than the Naz Perce


Would be okay for the Shoshone, if the background was changed. Maybe a grass background instead of desert.

3. Cheyenne - Could be used but they are an Algonquian speaking tribe.

4. Pawnee - Would occupy another area not yet represented. We have a pretty good leaderhead for them and they were bitter rivals of the Sioux.



5. Comanche - Again would occupy an unrepresented area, and we have a leaderhead for them. Downside is they are geographically quite close to the Navajo and Apache and culturally are not too dissimilar either.


Could be used for the Comanche

South American Civ

This one was a little harder due to really no good leaderheads to fit any remaining civ. However, let me run something past the group. We could use a non contacted civ. That is a civ where there has not been sufficient outside contact with. I was thinking of the Toromona.

7. Toromona - They were allegedly the protectors of the Inca, and guardians to the city of Paititi, the mythic unfound city where the Inca sent their remaining treasure for safe keeping. They also met and drove back the Spanish in several battles, defeating them badly enough to prevent any kind of Spanish occupation of their lands. In fact they are still listed as a non contacted tribe. They also occupy an area not yet represented. It adds a bit of variety to the civs!


Could be used for the Toromona. No-one really knows what they looked like and this guy looks bad-ass enough to kick some butt.

If the team does not want to pursue the Toromona civ, then I would suggest either the Cambeba or Mapulche, although neither one of them fits with the leaderhead.


Option 2 - 1 North American Civ / 1 Central American Civ / 1 South American Civ

If we pick one of the North American Civs, and a South American Civ, then I suggest the Guaymi as a Central American Civ.

6. Guaymi - They are not that well known but they are further south than the other civs in that area, helping to space out an already crowded section of the map.


Could be used for the Guaymi

Personally I could go with either option, and I'm open to any suggestions. If somebody really wants a civ represented from those mentioned above please speak out.

If we choose option 1, then I would suggest the Shoshone and Pawnee for North America and Toromona for South America. If we choose option 2, I would pick the Shoshone for North America, the Toromona for South America, and use the Guaymi for Central America.

Let me know what you guys think.

As always colonialfan... I suppose you are right, but I can't open all your attachments...

Schmiddie said:

I suppose you are right, but I can't open all your attachments...

Click to expand...

Me neither.

@colonialfan:
I suppose you wanted to link the leaderheads I had listed.
Could you please try to link them again.
(Using hyperlinks instead of ATTACH.)

However, from what I read in colonialfan's post and considering our available leaderheads, I would go for these 3 Civs:
(Variant: 2 North, 1 South)

Shoshone (North), leaderhead
Commanche (North), leaderhead
Toromona ( South), leaderhead

Should we try to find a better leaderhead for the shoshone? ...this one is, hm...insufficient...

Schmiddie said:

Should we try to find a better leaderhead for the shoshone?

Click to expand...

Sure, go ahead.
It would be fantastic, if anybody finds better ones.

I simply couldn't find any other good leaderheads for Natives anymore ...
(I have been searching the forums up and down many times.)

Hi Folks,

I have uploaded/finished the graphics for Mixtec, Machiparo and Muisca, but I didn't make screenshots.

Feel free to test and discuss the graphics

Schmiddie said:

I have uploaded/finished the graphics for Mixtec, Machiparo and Muisca, but I didn't make screenshots.

Feel free to test and discuss the graphics

Click to expand...

Great.
(I will test tonight.)

Edit:
The new unit graphics are very good again.

Schmiddie said:

As always colonialfan... I suppose you are right, but I can't open all your attachments...

Click to expand...

Sorry guys. I've reloaded the attachments, you should be able to see them now.

Schmiddie, you are right about the Shoshone leaderheads. They are not ideal but the two we have are the best we could find. They are closer to the Shoshone than many other tribes in that area. I think if we went with two other tribes like the Comanche and Pawnee, we would have a huge area of the map not represented. Just my opinion.

If the background of the Nanyehi leaderhead was altered and her clothes changed from blue to a brown color, then she would be a much better fit for the Shoshone, but then again if you can find a more suitable leaderhead, that would be fantastic.

colonialfan said:

If the background of the Nanyehi leaderhead ...

Click to expand...

The leaderhead for Nanyehi itself is pretty good.
But somehow I hestitate to introduce more female Native leaders.
(I would really prefer to use male leaderheads if possible.)

@colonialfan:
Is this suggestion ok for you ?

raystuttgart said:

Shoshone (North), leaderhead
Commanche (North), leaderhead
Toromona (South), leaderhead

Click to expand...

If yes, you could start preparing bios.

Meanwhile we could still be searching for a better leaderhead for Shoshone.
(Or should we really take the Nanyehi leaderhead for Shoshone ?)

Edit:
The map showing the areas of our Native Nations is fantastic.

raystuttgart said:

The leaderhead for Nanyehi itself is pretty good.
But somehow I hestitate to introduce more female Native leaders.
(I would really prefer to use male leaderheads if possible.)

@colonialfan:
Is this suggestion ok for you ?

Click to expand...

No problem Ray. I have bio's for both male and female Shoshone. The bio's for the males are actual Shoshone chiefs. The female bio is for Sacajawea (of Lewis & Clark fame). I can do a male bio, that's okay with me.

raystuttgart said:

Meanwhile we could still be searching for a better leaderhead for Shoshone.
(Or should we really take the Nanyehi leaderhead for Shoshone ?)

Click to expand...

We could look for a better fit, but I'm not sure what we will find it, I think we have pretty much exhausted the leaderheads. Schmiddie might find something we have not. If we go with the Nanyehi leaderhead, at the very least the background would have to be changed as we are looking for a Northwest background, not a a Southwest background. Ideally her clothes should be a more earthtone color as well.

raystuttgart said:

Edit:
The map showing the areas of our Native Nations is fantastic.

Click to expand...

Like I said it's just a crude representation of native civ placement. If we need a more detailed one, let me know. In the meantime I'll start working on the last three native civs.