Resurrecting the Aifons - a sea-dwelling civ for FF

Agreed, awesome ideas! ;)
 
Agares has, as far as we know, nothing to do with the dissapearnce of the Aifons and Danalin's sleep. Hastur, Mammon's archangel, is giving Danalin have nightmares, making Mammon much more suspect.
 
Agares is just the plotter, he could have simply came up with the idea. Same as when he tricked Bhall so Mulcarn could reign. The angels of evil are his puppets and he is the puppeteer. Mulcarn was a tool for Agares own ends, though in all honesty I still do not understand why the heck Agares would want Mulcarn to basically freeze creation into a stasis... That isn't destroying creation that's simply preserving it. Besides, Mammon is all greed he has nothing to gain by poking at Danalin's mind. Danalin goes insane and what does Mammon gain? Whenever Mammon does something the question of what gains he makes is key. Though I can understand Hastur IS the archangel of Mammon. I doubt the lore for this is even invented yet so we should have a big argument and get this plot fleshed out! :D
 
BugReportage said:
Agares is just the plotter, he could have simply came up with the idea. Same as when he tricked Bhall so Mulcarn could reign. The angels of evil are his puppets and he is the puppeteer. Mulcarn was a tool for Agares own ends, though in all honesty I still do not understand why the heck Agares would want Mulcarn to basically freeze creation into a stasis... That isn't destroying creation that's simply preserving it.
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But... it could force other gods to intervene, shattering the compact (and maybe the godslayer) even more
 
Good point. @ thomas
If you're referring to waking up Danalin. I don't think it would be either Mammon's or Agares' intention to wake him up. It could very well be Mammon I suppose, and there's stronger evidence to support him. I just want to know what the God of Greed is going to get from driving Danalin insane. :confused:
The OO religion? .
The main purpose of driving Danalin insane in my thoughts is that his religion has been twisted in such a way that it is easy for the forces of evil to influence the worshippers of OO without breaking the compact.
I suppose Mammon could gain from this by getting worshippers? Does Mammon like insane worshippers? :confused:
 
Mammon was the angel of foresight, thereby the angel of destiny and the future (I guess)
Tali is sort of like the angel of change, (winds of change)

EDIT: Forgot to add Mammon's foresight is blinded by his greed. So he's not really much for destiny anymore.
 
Psychic_Llamas said:
random question that will make sense later...which god/ archangel is responsible for luck/ unexpected change/ altering the future/ taking control of ones destiny????
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Esus's archangel (the name escapes me) is the angel of luck AFAIK.

Amathaon is the god of Inspiration, making his followers prone to bursts of enthusiasm and sponteanuity.
 
Esus' angel is Iaegus
 
BugReportage said:
Agares is just the plotter, he could have simply came up with the idea. Same as when he tricked Bhall so Mulcarn could reign. The angels of evil are his puppets and he is the puppeteer. Mulcarn was a tool for Agares own ends, though in all honesty I still do not understand why the heck Agares would want Mulcarn to basically freeze creation into a stasis... That isn't destroying creation that's simply preserving it. Besides, Mammon is all greed he has nothing to gain by poking at Danalin's mind. Danalin goes insane and what does Mammon gain? Whenever Mammon does something the question of what gains he makes is key. Though I can understand Hastur IS the archangel of Mammon. I doubt the lore for this is even invented yet so we should have a big argument and get this plot fleshed out! :D
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From what Kael's hinted at, it sounds like Mulcarn is much more in control than he lets on. He has the aspects of cool rationality and patient plotting after all. His priests are cold and calculating and most likely, he is the same way. I have a feeling that Agares isn't in control of his fellow Evil Angels as he'd like, what with Mammon subverting at least one vault (Danalin) and perhaps invading another (Oghma's, if that D&D info is canon). Don't forgot that the god of deception probably isn't honest about his goals either. :p Ceridwen and Bhall are the closest to Agares but who knows what agendas they have.
 
Psychic_Llamas said:
random question that will make sense later...which god/ archangel is responsible for luck/ unexpected change/ altering the future/ taking control of ones destiny????
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Are you looking for one that does all, or is this multiple questions.

Lugus's archangel Baelious is the angel of Fourtune. That seems closest to what you are asking.

Unexpected change doesn't exactly fit in any of them, but it is probably Bhall's area, or maybe Tali's or Camulos. Bhall's would be a passion for changing things, while Tali's would be trying random stuff just for fun. Camulos has been described as completely random changes (where as Tali is predictably irresponsible) but I see it more as violent strife where you pick victims for no good reason. He was supposed to deal with Peace.

Mammon was supposed to be about making reasonable predictions of the outcomes of actions and adjusting actions to seek to improve one's destiny.

Oghma's archangel Embarr is responsible for imagination, which could be important in changing one's destiny too.

Amathaon is the angel of birth, new creation, and inspiration. Oghma's archangel really seems closer to him than Oghma to me, so he too could involed in the same way as Embarr.
 
When I said naval warfare sucks it is because there is only one worthwhile ship (aside from Black Wind) and that is man'o'war ... Everything else plain sucks. I dislike having an unit that is superior in every way. Rather, we should have several different types of ships, which have distinct roles in combat. And then we need some promotions to further specialize our ships. And finally, land units should become more involved in naval combat. Boarding ships and guarding them against boarding. Capturing ships should not be a special feature for Lanun.
 
Are you looking for one that does all, or is this multiple questions.
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multiple questions ;) you answered my question with Mammon:

Mammon was supposed to be about making reasonable predictions of the outcomes of actions and adjusting actions to seek to improve one's destiny.
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the only thing that has bugged me with the aifon story is that the prophets completely freaked out about what they saw when they predicted the fate of the aifons as a race... however, what if Mammon and Hastur whispered lies to the prophets and gave them false prophesies? what if the visions of destruction are just that, visions, and nothing more, insane halucinations... what if the Aifons were drawn back into Danalins vault and are being similarly twisted by hasturs dreams, but the fact that mammon diverts prophets visions of the Aifons t oa false conclusion, means that it appears that the Aifon have been 'obliviated'...

im still trying to rationalise a situation where the aifons could come back.

also, i think the reasons behind Mammons intensions is he is greedy of the faith that Danalins followers has in him. if i was a god of greed i would covert all the other gods powers and followers. By subverting the Aifon and Danalin, and twisting them with nightmares, he gains control over them and breaks their faith in Danalin (somewhat) and so he feels he has gained control over them.

anyway, thats my random thought complete :)
 
Yes. It makes perfect sense the angel of greed will not be happy if people serve somebody else. After all, as the personification of greed, his greed is absolute.
 
Ya know, the best ever aquitic civ in my opinion was way back in Civ II: Test of Time. The fantasy game on that had 4 'levels' tho: sky, earth, underwater, and underworld. But the Mermen on that game were really damn cool.

As for Aifons, it'd be cool to resurrect em. But the problem is how would get them to sort live underwater? Or make so they can live on platform like cities that sorta float above the water? It'd almost require a new underwater level to avoid causin the seaways to become crowded. Idk. The cultural borders brought about since Civ IV kinda limits this whole thing.
 
Psychic_Llamas said:
Make the Aifons like Mercurian and infernals, and make them spawn only when the Aifon Isle is explored, maybe make the Aifons the same alignment as whoever ressurectud them and as friends (not permanent allies, just really high diplomatic modifyers). Their capital pops where the isle once was and they start with a few settlers and units. The aifons wouldnt suffer the same useless-AI-effect that the mercurians and infernals have from starting later because there is no one else around to compete with their ocean territory.
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I like that. That makes a lot of sense, man. I mean then the whole powerhouse problem is reduced. The Aifons are still important, but not so big that they pretty much rule the sea hands down.
 
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