Resurrecting the Aifons - a sea-dwelling civ for FF

I like the idea of a vanishing spell also. I see horrible complications, but in general I'd like to ask those better then me on how to basically make a city invisible/not attackable for other civilizations. It feels like much of Aifons hang on such notions, underwater cities etc.
 
Psychic_Llamas said:
Welcom to the forums Villieldr :wavey:

lets call it "Call of the Waves" for now.

All units are teleported to the civs cultural borders (or nearst city)
All units gain temporary invisibility
All cities and cultural borders as well as improvements etc appear to dissapear for other civs (as you say a 'Aifons has been destroyed message' would be good)
all production in cities is stopped, happyness and unhealthyness in all cities is maxed.
over the period of the spell perhaps allow cities to auto spawn random units

--I like the name for it and I had thought about it extending to units within your cultural boarder too. Another idea I'd thought of was it 'repelling' other civs units but that would be more like a shield and not an invis/pocket dimension concept. The addon of it random spawning units could work too. Give the spawned units the crazed promotion (3%chance to go barbarian each turn to simulate the dreaming darkness effect that plagues their race while in the 'pocket'). The repositioning of cities would be hellish on both the player and the modders I think (20+ cities to replace around the map would be not only exploitable resource/space wise but teddious). Otherwise I like your views on it PL :).
Click to expand...
 
Villieldr said:
The repositioning of cities would be hellish on both the player and the modders I think (20+ cities to replace around the map would be not only exploitable resource/space wise but teddious). Otherwise I like your views on it PL :).
Click to expand...

Not if you limitted the capacity to build Settlers and only allow them raze cities. (Can't live on dry land!) The original concept had the idea of floating cities and eggs. Even if we abandon floating cities in favour of terrafroming coral - which is probably a better idea and a lot easier to implement - limitting cities by automatically producing an Egg (Settler) unit in your Capital every 75 turns means your looking at about nine or ten cities at the end of the game, and probably a lot fewer than that when you cast the spell.
 
--I like the name for it and I had thought about it extending to units within your cultural boarder too. Another idea I'd thought of was it 'repelling' other civs units but that would be more like a shield and not an invis/pocket dimension concept. The addon of it random spawning units could work too. Give the spawned units the crazed promotion (3%chance to go barbarian each turn to simulate the dreaming darkness effect that plagues their race while in the 'pocket'). The repositioning of cities would be hellish on both the player and the modders I think (20+ cities to replace around the map would be not only exploitable resource/space wise but teddious). Otherwise I like your views on it PL
Click to expand...

id prefer auto spawned units not to have crazed, it would be worse off for the aifons if they turned barb on you. id rather give them a promo which has a 1-3% chance each turn of 'killing' the unit, ie they are sent back to the pocket and trapped. this would prevent exploitation of getting an insta army. perhaps have the promo applied only after the worldspells vanishing effects are gone (so your free troops arnt gone by the time you can use them), that way they would have a temporarily bolstered force which over time would vanish again, useful for fending off invasions.

but your right a repositioning of cities would be a modders nightmare, not to mention confusing as all hell for the player.
 
I belive that this idea can be resurected.
But, I sugjest a Mazatl-Cualy aproach to it. Don't know what I meen, well than let me explain.

The 1st post sugjested:
[to_xp]Gekko;7343497 said:
for the time being, let's just assume that they re-appeared on creation just as misteriously as they disappeared. no one knows where they have been all this time. probably some evil spell got casted upon them and disrupted the link between Danalin and them, making the God unaware of their existance and bringing him into depression and eternal sleep and dreaming. the Aifons were probably trapped into the depths of the sea and couldn't be find by anyone, hence being presumed extint. but the incoming armageddon and the machinations of Mulcarn have brought them enough power to rise again to the surface and meet the new civilizations of the Era of Rebirth.
Click to expand...


But I sugjest something radicaly diferent, yet still similar.

Instead of being destroyed they were cursed with a fate worse than death.

We know from official fluf that they were destroyed by some force (I don't know what and am to lazy to look it up).
But I sugjest that a small faction had survived, at the cost of pledging aligence to the true overlords. Now, they are something like the Mazatl of the sea.
They worship a minor non adoptable religion that is based around the real mysteries behind the OO.
They have krakens and other sea monsters as mounts and they govern their empires from wast cities beneth the waves.

Their objective (and hopefuly Unique VC) would be to flood the entire world for their overlords.

The Aifons them self would newer apear as units, other than a few mages and specialists to represent their few numbers and reclusive nature. Instead, they would have monsters sumoned from the deep to serve them as workers and armies alike.

Examples of troops:
Ships: Man o' War, Frigate -> Kraken, Killer Wale
Land troops: Knight, Axeman, Champion -> Giant Crabs, drown like creatures (True Drowns), Stigian Legionaries (stronger stygian guard), ect.


Their cities would only be foundable in the ocean, but once founded they could be atacked and destroyed by any naval unit. (if they have canons on board, they sure hell can drop a gunpowder keg onto the fish-men).


On the sea and in their cities, they would fight against your normal naval units like in SMAC.
On land, their land units would be fighting your land units.


All hail and fear the Cualy of the sea. The ultimate and real power of the OO.

So, what do you people think?
 
I personally would love to play as a truly sea bound civ. I unfortunately couldn't make it happen code wise. This civ would also run into problems on maps without water? I know you can effect where a civ is started on a map, but can you alter a map altogether if a civ needs a particular type of tile? It seems the Aifon civ would be excluded from being available to the AI.
 
So, does anyone like my idea for the new race OO concept?
 
PPQ_Purple said:
So, does anyone like my idea for the new race OO concept?
Click to expand...

I think it is interesting but why would water dwelling civs bother conquering land based ones? Unless they are doing it for slaves to take back to their cities or something.
 
Four reasons:
1. Slaves and resources
2. To apease the overlords
3. To slowely flood the world into eternal ocean
4. To take revenge on the surface dwellers. (the ones that were spared by the apocalipse)
 
PPQ_Purple said:
Four reasons:
1. Slaves and resources
2. To apease the overlords
3. To slowely flood the world into eternal ocean
4. To take revenge on the surface dwellers. (the ones that were spared by the apocalipse)
Click to expand...

So basically this civ would be spreading ocean in game?
 
It is more of a lore perspective. I have no idea if such a mechanic would be any good.

The general idea is that they would just want to ravage/destroy the surface world.


Basicly, your average sea dweling Evil Alligement civ.



But I can imagine them slowely raising sea levels with time.
 
I donno, having trouble wrapping my head around it (and I do have a big head) I mean, even Aifon isle was an island right? At best these guys could be a monstrous version of the lanun, where they do not mind having many water tiles in the bfc (such as settling on a 1x1 island.) Maybe another form of lizardman as you mentioned. Make them coastal dwellers but I donno man.
 
If I was to do this personally, I'd make them have one city, or at least be limited in cities, and have a python function each turn that gives a chance for the city to move, drifting in the currents... Add LOTS of ocean resources, so they'd have massive floating cities, limited to Ocean terrain. Then, as a balance, make an Autoacquire promotion that requires Ocean and Naval units, that gives a massive bonus to city attack. Maybe limited to higher tier naval.
 
Let me try and explain:

1. Their cities can only be founded in Ocean tiles
2. Their cities are delicate under water domes
3. They can capture surface cities, but not found them
4. Their sea cities can only be raised, not captured
5. Their sea cities can only be atacked by ships and units that can water walk
6. They have two types of troops, sea monsters and amphibius sea monsters
7. No city defense bonuses for any of their troops


No moving cities or floating cities. But cities that are hard to find, but easy to break.
Posibly due to things like:
a) Special Terain, deap ocean - creates storms and malestorms
b) Spawned sea creatures
 
Valkrionn said:
If I was to do this personally, I'd make them have one city, or at least be limited in cities, and have a python function each turn that gives a chance for the city to move, drifting in the currents... Add LOTS of ocean resources, so they'd have massive floating cities, limited to Ocean terrain. Then, as a balance, make an Autoacquire promotion that requires Ocean and Naval units, that gives a massive bonus to city attack. Maybe limited to higher tier naval.
Click to expand...


Did you ever read The Scar by China Mieville? It featured a floating city called Armada that was occupied by a small civilization of pirates. The city was hundreds of ships and boats of all kinds permanently lashed together. Some of the ships were used for housing, others had been filled with soil and were used as gardens, etc... Armada drifted around very slowly, until...
Spoiler :
the rulers of the city chained a beast similar to the Leviathan to it
. It would be fairly easy to make the city very vulnerable to naval units if left unescorted...representing the danger of your "city" being sunk(!).

That could be a heck of a lot of fun. Perhaps even done simply as a reimagining of the Lanun...I'm not sure the game needs two ocean-oriented civs.

As for hidden cities that are very difficult to attack...interesting in concept, probably a bad idea using the civ 4 engine. The amount of labor it would require to make this work, with the end result that we have another civ the AI can't effectively use...meh. The ocean-dwelling civ in Alpha Centauri was ridiculously easy to win with...I'm guessing we'd see more of the same in Civ 4.
 
Vermicious Knid said:
Did you ever read The Scar by China Mieville? It featured a floating city called Armada that was occupied by a small civilization of pirates. The city was hundreds of ships and boats of all kinds permanently lashed together. Some of the ships were used for housing, others had been filled with soil and were used as gardens, etc... Armada drifted around very slowly, until...
Spoiler :
the rulers of the city chained a beast similar to the Leviathan to it
. It would be fairly easy to make the city very vulnerable to naval units if left unescorted...representing the danger of your "city" being sunk(!).

That could be a heck of a lot of fun. Perhaps even done simply as a reimagining of the Lanun...I'm not sure the game needs two ocean-oriented civs.

As for hidden cities that are very difficult to attack...interesting in concept, probably a bad idea using the civ 4 engine. The amount of labor it would require to make this work, with the end result that we have another civ the AI can't effectively use...meh. The ocean-dwelling civ in Alpha Centauri was ridiculously easy to win with...I'm guessing we'd see more of the same in Civ 4.
Click to expand...

Yeah now that I could see. I love the concept of floating cities.
 
Yeah, interesting. Reminds me of the fleet in Suikoden V. Sort of floating "city" too. However, I don't see the Aifons as a civ living in a floating flowing city. And they're gone, dammit, let them be! :p

By the way, how hard would it be to code a floating city?
 
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