Winning a cultural victory before hotels

Giskler said:
Disagree. Culture victory is easy and fast. The only way I was able to complete a science victory was with culture and diplomatic disabled.
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I tend to agree that science victory has become one of the slowest victory conditions.

Diplomacy still remains the easiest and fastest one provided your empire is wide enough.

In my last game I was just few turns away from a diplomatic victory when I won the cultural one, if I focused on diplomacy rather than pushing my tourism to the max I would have won diplomatically a lot earlier, I also used something like 4 great musicians to increase my cultural influence fast.

Of course I could have conquered the capital of that remaining civ that still didn't acknowledge my cultural superiority. That was also an option...
 
I wasn't able to peacefully win culture before hotels, but I was able to do it before trade routes with religion spam, int'l games, and two concert bombs in the final turn. This was as France at King diff, final turn was 1911. I owned all culture/tourism wonders filled with theming bonuses and at least 20 artifacts.

I made a separate post about it earlier. The culture victory is a very elusive beast indeed, since you need to decide to go for it early enough that you may not have met all the culture-whoring civs, in which case you are almost certainly looking at a war with that civilization. Emperor and above and one warmonger is likely to be out of control with their culture. I really wish there were a way to hamper their culture, without your tourism, and without going to war. e.g. standing army tax, but for culture.
 
well, on TurnCast last night we had a Russian AI (Immortal) almost win a Culture VC before hotels AND before they picked an ideology.

random point I keep making... don't ignore tourism.

The AI had basically wonder spammed every culture/tourism thing possible and mass spammed archaeologist before anyone else got to that tech. Cathy only had 64 tourism at that point.

So basically, it is plausible depending on difficulty level, and if you play super optimally (Ie, you should be playing at a higher diff level normally). Early game culture output tend to be super low, so low tourism can get more traction early. But if someone stacks every bit of tourism wonder, etc, then you might just get a win.
 
kaspergm said:
I played a Cultural Victory as France, on Prince. I didn't get to finish before Hotels, but it was close. I could easily have won without the Hotel bonus, I think by the time I bought the Hotel in Paris I only needed to dominate one last civ, and while the Hotel did cut the time down from something like 15 turns to 9 turns, it was not a make it or break it. Never got the Airport. I did have some pretty wicket theming bonuses in Paris:

Spoiler :
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hey, nice! i dont understand abou theming, could you explain that?(the louvre for....., the chapel for.... etc)
 
Killlbray said:
I tend to agree that science victory has become one of the slowest victory conditions.

Diplomacy still remains the easiest and fastest one provided your empire is wide enough.

In my last game I was just few turns away from a diplomatic victory when I won the cultural one, if I focused on diplomacy rather than pushing my tourism to the max I would have won diplomatically a lot earlier, I also used something like 4 great musicians to increase my cultural influence fast.

Of course I could have conquered the capital of that remaining civ that still didn't acknowledge my cultural superiority. That was also an option...
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well, since you can buy spaceship parts(freedom ideology), and you play as venice, SV is easy....
 
MadDjinn said:
just remember to fill in Rationalism as fast as you can and play nice with everyone for RAs.
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yes, but when AI has high tourism, i rather to destroy their capital for unexpected things(like city flipping, revolutionary wave, etc)......
 
kaspergm said:
I played a Cultural Victory as France, on Prince. I didn't get to finish before Hotels, but it was close. I could easily have won without the Hotel bonus, I think by the time I bought the Hotel in Paris I only needed to dominate one last civ, and while the Hotel did cut the time down from something like 15 turns to 9 turns, it was not a make it or break it. Never got the Airport. I did have some pretty wicket theming bonuses in Paris:

Spoiler :
Click to expand...

Mad respect for scoring all those theming bonuses. I guess it's time for me to try France as well!
 
As Byzantium I got my fastest victory ever, and it was a culture victory. I used Mosques, Cathedrals, and Pagodas. My reformation belief was +2 tourism from buildings purchased with faith. By buying all of the buildings early, I became popular with some civs in the early renaissance before I had even met all of the civs. I did not win before hotels, but I did become influential with three civs before hotels, and hotels were not as important as normal because most of my faith came from religious buildings.
 
From what I noticed, it looks like Great Musicians create "10 x tourism per turn" when using their "Concert" action. Since that is related to current tourism (and not a median of X turns), I guess a sound strategy is too wait until you experience a tourism peak (National Games, Carneval, etc.) and then bomb the hell out of the AI with some spare musicians gathered over time.

In my last Venice game I had a musician available during the +100% world game timer and I was able to score 10k tourism on the last CIV that was not yet domianted. I guess careful planning and timing will pay off a lot for winning a culture victory.

Now the question is:
Should you save most (or even all?) of your great musicians to initate an uber-tourism bomb? There aren't too many theme slots anyway...
 
msawchuk said:
As Byzantium I got my fastest victory ever, and it was a culture victory. I used Mosques, Cathedrals, and Pagodas. My reformation belief was +2 tourism from buildings purchased with faith. By buying all of the buildings early, I became popular with some civs in the early renaissance before I had even met all of the civs. I did not win before hotels, but I did become influential with three civs before hotels, and hotels were not as important as normal because most of my faith came from religious buildings.
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what difficulty did you play? i was play as pedro at emperor, and i constructed all the tourism-wonders, with world religion on my capital(of course i bribe the other civs), i won the game after building hotels and destroyed capital's AI with high defensive-culture
 
GAGA Extrem said:
I guess a sound strategy is too wait until you experience a tourism peak (National Games, Carneval, etc.) and then bomb the hell out of the AI with some spare musicians gathered over time.
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I agree with what you say except this. Specifically, musicians from past eras have "lower yield", so to your described method, "banking" past-era musicians loses its effectiveness. It's better to use them in great works and spend "banked faith" in a later age to buy the musicians outright, all at once, and use them as the coup de grâce.
 
Hyperion529 said:
i achieved a peaceful culture victory in the demo, while waiting for BNW to finally unlock in the rest of the world :mischief: as the demo would automatically end after the player enters the industrial era, i teched as slow as possible and tried to maximize my tourism output as soon as possible with all stuff i had available at the time. the reformation belief which gives +2 tourism for faith buildings was very nice combined with monasteries and cathedrals and having the world religion also helped alot. i did it on warlord, though (usually play emperor to deity) and the demo is locked at a small continents map.
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This is a very effective combo. I used the exact same setup and was dominant with all the Civs on my continent by year 1000. I went moderately wide to maximize this. If it was a pangea map I could have achieved the CV well before hotels.
 
Yeah, a musician's tourist yield is, I believe, based on the tourism output at the time it was created. I think it's about 10x one's tourism output.
 
Ah, I see. But you can still save up faith and buy a bunch of muscians during a tourism peak. So settle the "natural" muscians and then pump out via faith.
 
VainoValkea said:
Yeah, a musician's tourist yield is, I believe, based on the tourism output at the time it was created. I think it's about 10x one's tourism output.
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I think it's a maximum amount as per the tech age the musician was "born".
 
I won as France on Prince difficulty shortly after completing Broadway... I was about to finish researching Refrigeration to get Hotels but I won the Cultural Victory before. :p
 
So, a good Brazil strat might be to pop a golden age during the international games and then rush buy 2-3 great musicians. Boom, headshot.
 
I never won before hotels, although I have won without internet; I didn't really need it with the international games wrapping up. :crazyeye:
 
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