Resurrecting the Aifons - a sea-dwelling civ for FF

Bob the Barbari said:

Hemah looked at the sea. It was calm, the waves gently washing the shore down the cliff. He heard footsteps behind him. The man slowly approached him and stopped by his side. Hemah realized that he was expecting that man, that it was why he came here in the first place.
‘What are you thinking about?’ The man asked.
Hemah hesitated for a moment.
‘Aifons?’ A question rather than a statement. Was he really thinking about them? ‘But they’re gone.’
‘They have never been truly gone.’
Hemah wanted to turn his head to see the man’s face but something stopped him. The sea . It was no longer calm. The waves were now reaching up to his feet, the wind was growing stronger the sound of thunder echoed under the dark sky. He felt the presence of something evil in the water.
‘You have to find us.’
Hemah opened his eyes. The sea was calm again and the man was gone, but the feeling of evil presence remained.

Two water dwelling civilizations: Aifnos and Strange Creatures Without a Name at the Moment

The Aifons were not destroyed (at least not all of them) but rather captured and used as SCs’ slaves until recently they rebelled against their masters and now they seek retribution. Both civs are at war with each other.

Aifons are more Kuriotatesque, with small number of cites while SCs prefer plenty of smaller cities (probably only able to work first circle like the Jotnar).
Their ocean cities are invisible for anyone but the other aquamen. Most of their units are also inwisible on water. To be able to see their ocean cities you have to research Message from the Depth or Optics. Their ocean cities can be attacked by water walking units and most ships and are automatically razed. They can settle on land and their land cities act completely normal, but they get -1 and from land tiles.

There should be a number of ocean-based resources that would only be visible to Aifons and SCs (and Lanun in case of pearls). I suggest that ocean and coast tiles yield should be changed for them (ocean 1 1 , sea (new) 2 , coast 2 1 all + 1 from sailing, coral unique feature gives -1 + 1 with no effect on yield for land dwellers) with a bunch of special improvements (like kelp farm) and special worker unit.

Ocean cities do not gain culture at all; instead Aifons have a special building that gives a one-time boost of 10 so they can work the second ring.
Most units would be unique and they would all start with water walking and a promotion that would give double movement in ocean/sea, -% strength on land and would make it impossible to enter desert.

They would not be able to adopt any religion, and they would not spread to they lands. Aifons would have a ritual Awake Danalin, which would give them some bonuses and allow OO leaders to choose their alignment giving new units based on their choice (it would also affect heroes somehow).

Oh, and how about a submarine hero available for everyone (or rather the first civ to complete it to be exact)?

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no, read up on the Aifons... ask Magister...

Heh ... so are the Ljosalphar and Svartalphar with Norse .... are you implying that two is too many?

Deon said:

Nix

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Nix is a german word, perhaps you are thinking of the Triton? No wait, that's greek.
Hmm... Merman's so blasé.

Besides, Vodyanoi are uglier and more monsterlike than the other myths I have named

Redeyes said:

Nix is a german word, perhaps you are thinking of the Triton? No wait, that's greek.
Hmm... Merman's so blasé.

Besides, Vodyanoi are uglier and more monsterlike than the other myths I have named

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I see a "nix" word in my english dictionary. Maybe it was taken from german Nixe (and probably Neck are the same kind of creature).


The main problem I believe is because I'm russian .

You know, it's always weird to see a transliterated word from your language to be used as an appellative in english. Probably it's a personal taste.

Call them Vodyaniyeh (plural) then or Ljosalfar should be Ljosalfr. And it's not ugly or monster-like >:E. It just means "related to water" (like water plant). So it's just "water" as an adjective.

I just used "the Vodyanoi" because I had the word stuck in my head for, like, a few weeks, while I was playing The Witcher and it was exactly what they are -- fish men. Plus, it seemed better than just calling them TempCivName1.

Edit: Also, sorta what Redeyes said: it is a much more original term than Merfolk, Triton, Fish People, Naga, etc. and its foreignness seems much more insidious. Insidious Russian Tritons.

That would be a good naming theme for the cities, though: Russian words! YEAH!

UNIT 666 said:

I just used "the Vodyanoi" because I had the word stuck in my head for, like, a few weeks, while I was playing The Witcher and it was exactly what they are -- fish men. Plus, it seemed better than just calling them TempCivName1.

Edit: Also, sorta what Redeyes said: it is a much more original term than Merfolk, Triton, Fish People, Naga, etc. and its foreignness seems much more insidious. Insidious Russian Tritons.

That would be a good naming theme for the cities, though: Russian words! YEAH!

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"Mommy I saw a Soviet under my bed with an AK-47"
seriously man, grow up the cold war is over...

Actually I see no cold-war relation here. (??)

Actually "vodyanoi" is not a fish-man. He's a "turnskin", his normal form is a pale man with a long green beard with water weed stuck in it, but he can transform in different forms, like fish or a man with a toad head or whatever. As for many creatures in folkloire, he has different depictions.

The only problem I see that this character was always a single one (like a lord of waters). But who thinks about origins these days .

Deon said:

Actually I see no cold-war relation here. (??)

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The "Insidious Russians" Triton. At least, that's my guess as to what he's referring to.

Deon said:

But who thinks about origins these days .

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You? At the very least, not me.

I want a civilization of zeuses then . "Zeusi", people hurling lightnings and riding eagles. Oh, now I will run to that viking-esque thread and propose the civ name: odins. Joke.

UNIT 666 said:

The "Insidious Russians" Triton. At least, that's my guess as to what he's referring to.

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I'd prefer russian cities for Illians then. Rough winters and bearded men are good enough for a pun .
Or Doviello with bear cavalry .

civ_king said:

no, read up on the Aifons... ask Magister...

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All I found about them is that one day they disappeard and noone knows what happened to them. So it is left open. Might have been destroyed by an invisible pink unicorn, might have been captured by some mysterious creatures, that use their souls in their dark rituals. If I am wrong and there is an explanation of what happened to them then that's OK. It's not like anyone is going to put them in game anyway.

I feel that all viking/norse thematics can be best done in a Illian/Jotnar/the other existing civ plus module. There are one norse themes civ, one ice themed civ and one giant civ with giant monsters and norse theme.

Its kind like of making yet another undead civ after the two that exists.

I'd love to have the time to do the Aifons, and do them right. It'd take some serious code-effort. And I'd have only one city.

I just want Alpha Centaurii style Kelp farms.

A feature, not an improvement, that gives +1

WarKirby said:

I just want Alpha Centaurii style Kelp farms.

A feature, not an improvement, that gives +1

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Sounds good to me. Loved how you could play a well run ocean mostly civ in Alpha Centauri.

You can do it with Lanun and their ports + Throne of Heron now .

Because I can.

Sounds cool. I definitely approuve

It might be interesting if the aifons were turned into monsters enhanced because of Danalin's and Hemah's nightmares. They lost their ability to breathe air (I assume aifons had gills or something) and only recently researched magic that lets them leave their watery home. Or they just weren't interested in the surface until recently. AoI probably cut down their food supply (fish mainly at the time) and once the oceans thawed, they looked into alternative sources of food. They worship the overlords and cannot adopt another religion (much like Hyborem and AV). Over the centuries their worship of Danalin has become twisted, and unknowingly they actually do Mammon's bidding. They cannot do the 'redemption flip' Kahd though. Perhaps they don't exist at game start, but are spawned like infernals by whoever founds OO, who can then choose whether to switch over. Should have a game option to prevent them from spawning. And disabling OO disables them by default. Their leaders are evil of course.

Of course, they are all about the sea, thriwing in places few people want. And yes, I like underwater cities. I love the idea of enslaving 'land-dwellers', let them put slaves into cities as specialists that make food (+1 sounds about right), they love to eat people. No cannibalism promotion though. However, as they consume their fallen foes, they should temporarily be exempt from costs for being away from domestic soil (supply or support or whatever it is called) after killing a living unit. I'd like to see them go to a city, smash in the walls, beat down the defenders, loot and burn it and take whoever survives beneath the waves (maybe 1 slave per 3 city pop). No special slaver units but they can use slavery civic as usual. They have special sections in their cities with air, where the 'livestock' can live and breed, makes it is impossible to escape. Could either allow them to add unlimited slaves to the city, or require a special building which allow a limited number. The building can be built as many times as the player wants to, but it increases city maintenance every time. They can use slave trade, undercouncil does not care if the slaves work the fields or mines or make the main course of a fish monster's meal. In this case, using a limiting building is probably necessary.

As for their buildings, no smokehouses. It's beyond me how they'd do that in the bottom of the ocean. Besides, they like their meat fresh. They get granaries to store fodder for their livestock. They can only get 20% food stored after growth (instead of the typical 40%) but it should balance their 'free food' nicely. Need to check which resources they get benefits from. Fruit don't really fit at least. They can just ignore/trade away those. Some buildings may require unique names even if their effects are normal, including wonders. No forges because they don't do metals. They need unique building for master smith which supplies higher quality coral equipment...for a price. See the next paragraph why their first 'master coralcrafter' (needs a better name) does not take a great engineer. Costs are still completely open but might be high because coral does not sound particularly easy to shape. Walls should be some kind of dome because enemies can swim into the city from above as well, maybe arcology from Next War, at least for a placeholder.

Their armor is lightweight but strong coral rather than metal. I'd hate to swim in steel plate. They do not get metal promotions because getting metal resources without trade is kinda difficult for them. Instead, they get their increased base strength from their 'master coralcrafter' (again, name not final) but have to pay for every unit. In general, their units are not quite as strong as metal armed melee with best possible weapons, a penalty against metal promotions should accomplish this. But they are also immune to rust. No archers because shooting a bow is impossible underwater, maybe nets or javelins. I am not sure what to do with drowns and stygian guards (no metal). Considering how 'evil' they are, those two seem very appropriate. Maybe they take weapons from their dead enemies? Their warriors cannot be drowned though. They use drowns and stygian guards for cannon fodder and so do not expose themselves (and their expensive weapons) to danger. Their racial promotion might lower the chance of defending the stack?

They have mixed navies and cavalry. As in their cavalry cannot enter land and they don't build ships. As for what they ride, I am not sure. But definitely not something one has to capture from animals/barbarians.

As for their looks if somebody is interested in making art. I am thinking of hulking fishmen, with some fins. Not (much) taller than an average human but far more muscled. Their skin is maybe some shade of cyan. I don't know how coral armor should look but I have a special fondness of weapons with jagged edges. Art is low priority though, coding them in is far more important.

Name ideas for this faction/civilization/empire? Leader name ideas? How about leader traits? Something warmongering though.

I guess I need to make them myself to see results. But any feedback?

Personally, I prefer my coastal raiders, the Vodyanoi -- mainly because it's my idea. But, here I go...

I'm not really super knowledgeable about OO, but with how your Coralfish are described, there is little reason for them to be OO-only; they don't seem to personify Octopus Overlords like the Infernals personify the Ashen Veil, or the Angel people lead by Basium (forgot their name, somehow) personify the Order.

I think that they need to use metal resources, magic, and priests (the unit line, not the specialists) normally, like every other civ, and, because of this, their cities ought to be land-based, so they can survive in landlocked map scripts and take advantage of the same things as land-dwelling civs. Plus, every tech ought to have some purpose for them. Ideally, they should take advantage of everything FFH offers. The reason for this is simplicity -- it is key when making something as complex as a civilization for FFH, and it helps to ensure balance is visibly attainable. Edit: For this reason, I don't think civ-specific specialists are viable.

Because of this, I'd say you should re-think the coral weapons and non-land cities.

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Perhaps Animal Husbandry could become a staple economic tech for the fish people. The Smokehouse could become a UU named Slave Pens that provides some , and slaves can be sacrificed in a city with Slave Pens to increase the UU produces by 1, up to a max of, say, 5. Granaries should work as normal, but with no health bonus. (via UU)

Coastal cities ought to receive a + building of some sort, or have one buildable. Maybe both. This would be to promote coastal cities, as...

Tile yields ought to be largely unchanged, because either the civ or its slaves will benefit from the tiles. i.e. food bonus from farms because it helps keep more slaves fed, which in turn leads to more food for the fish people; mines are worked by slaves; horses can be eaten, and slaves can use them to help with production. Villages raise an interesting problem, though.

There definitely ought to be slave-warriors being used for the mounted line of troops.


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For naming, I'd just say go with the classical sorts of names for fish people. i.e. Naga, Vodyanoi, Merfolk, etc. For the leader's name... Who knows. How about Zup? For the traits, clearly Aggressive/Raider.

...

Oh, right! That idea about them spawning with OO is cool. If I knew more about OO's lore, I'd suggest something to make them OO-y, but I can't.




Please note that I edited this heavily, so please forgive the terrible structuring. One day I'll get better at this sort of thing... One day.

Any civ linked to OO like Agres is to AV should be neutral and not evil.
OO is neutral.