Do you build monuments when going for tradition?

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sabotai

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Unless they've changed things, the tradition policy that gives cultural buildings will give the lowest one (not yet built), and if none is available, give you the lowest one once it is researched.

I sometimes used to take advantage of this to get a nice bunch of hammers, taking the policy when I had the monuments and using the hammers to instead get amphitheaters or whatever comes next (can depend on Civ).

But I just noticed that Cultural buildings have been nerfed. Its questionable whether the amphitheater is even worth much around the time you build it (the free maintenance is nice).

I wondered what people usually do (feel free to outline situations that change your behavior):
a) Get the policy to get 4 free monuments
b) Get the policy after getting 4 monuments so that the subsequent culture building is free (one might have to delay middle of tradition policy for this, and that is a hard sell to me).
c) Put a monument in the capitol, use the policy to get free monuments in other cities.

Realistically, the choice is between C and A for me.
 
I usually go with A. Saving time not building a monument in the first few builds helps a lot...there are so many things you want to be building at that time. And amphitheaters are useless without great works anyway.
 
C) Every time for me. You can't afford to delay Landed Elite (or whichever is the policy that gives more food and growth in the capital), nor Monarchy. Nor should you delay a Monument in the capital. Although now that I think of it, the saved maintenance from the free monument gives a handy amount of extra gold over time... Maybe it is worth it to delay it after all. Certainly if you happen to get a culture ruin. And an extra Scout is a viable build in the early game if there's a reasonable amount of space on the map. Hmm... Have I been 'doing it wrong' all this time? :dubious:
 
Usually c) for me. I typically build a monument early to get the culture rolling, but that's about it. I might go a) and not build a monument if I have a start where I need to do a lot of other work (get a worker early to chop forests for a wonder/army, or remove jungle, marsh etc). I almost never go b).
 
I used to do C) but I wanna try doing A) in the future... so instead of building a monument in the cap I'd have another Scout or maybe can get a Shrine earlier; gotta experiment with it, but that seems to be the way to go now.

B) might be an option if you go Liberty first... but since you don't need 5 SP trees any longer for a CV, there is no real reason not to go Tradition instead which makes delaying it impossible.
 
Recently I've been going using the policy for the free monuments, and just ignoring all the culture buildings after that. Culture is harder to fill up now because you want great works, and if you aren't going for tourism, I'm thinking 200 culture early from a great writer might be better than the 200 culture spread out over the next 100 turns that you would get from a great work.

I've been using cultural city states and wonders (if I can get them) a lot more since BNW for my culture, while not building the culture buildings in favor of production, food, trade routes, and science. Even on deity you can get by with 0 tourism if you either go for world congress control or don't mind having your ideology chosen for you.
 
redwings1340 said:
Recently I've been going using the policy for the free monuments, and just ignoring all the culture buildings after that. Culture is harder to fill up now because you want great works, and if you aren't going for tourism, I'm thinking 200 culture early from a great writer might be better than the 200 culture spread out over the next 100 turns that you would get from a great work.

I've been using cultural city states and wonders (if I can get them) a lot more since BNW for my culture, while not building the culture buildings in favor of production, food, trade routes, and science. Even on deity you can get by with 0 tourism if you either go for world congress control or don't mind having your ideology chosen for you.
Click to expand...

there are times when you are screwed no matter what ideology you choose (if there is no tourism runaway and 3 equally powerful civs choose three different ideologies)

Best have SOME tourism but lots of culture to combat some of the effects unless you have 30+ happiness.
 
kb27787 said:
there are times when you are screwed no matter what ideology you choose (if there is no tourism runaway and 3 equally powerful civs choose three different ideologies)

Best have SOME tourism but lots of culture to combat some of the effects unless you have 30+ happiness.
Click to expand...

On my recent deity game with Poland (in signature), I managed to pass freedom as the world ideology before anyone else got an ideology. I was still able to enforce freedom on the rest of the world with 0 tourism. Tourism isn't absolutely necessary for anything in the game the way it is now, but neglecting tourism while not having an alternate plan can be deadly. Tourism can also be very useful for enforcing your ideology on others or helping out with the cultural victory, but it's very possible to ignore it and be fine like I've been doing my past few games.

But yes, lots of culture is nice. The way I've been playing, I've been prioritizing cultural city states earlier than other ones to have some defense against other cultures, and to get policies, which are as useful as ever. Without tourism, you will need to still either choose an ideology based on what others choose or get the world congress to pass yours to avoid unhappiness, but getting lots of culture with little tourism is very viable in my opinion.
 
I've been building culture buildings throughout the game, and then going for free broadcast towers in the late game. Given how few people do this, I suspect this isn't an efficient approach.
 
Sequitor said:
I've been building culture buildings throughout the game, and then going for free broadcast towers in the late game. Given how few people do this, I suspect this isn't an efficient approach.
Click to expand...

Hmm, if you're doing it just for the additional culture from broadcast towers, I doubt it is worth doing, because a spending culture to get a bunch more culture late game isn't all that efficient.

On the other hand, if you combine it with the ideology policy (forget which ideology) that gives you +tourism from broadcast towers, that could probably be part of an effective strategy for a cultural victory.

Also, if you get it as your free policy for hosting the world fair and you have a couple of great writers saved up... it could probably become a really good policy indeed!
 
C - The first thing I build at the start of the game is a monument to get culture up and running. Plus, getting Landed Elite is too important to wait. It means that the next three cities I found start with a monument which increases culture and saves on one building that needs to be built.

I tried not building a monument and getting a free on in my capital but it slowed down culture growth too much and made getting Landed Elite harder...
 
Pre-BNW always b, post-BNW always a.

The amphi rush has become less important, the gold/turn more important, landed elite alpha omega for a strong capital and production time can be spent on something else, make the basic units you need and go granary asap as well for better growth, or shrine for faster religion.

A) is looking better than ever =)
 
I'm able to find culture ruins in 90% of my games so I always go with A. Building 1-2 scouts instead of a monument simply pays off and amphitheaters in BNW are nearly worthless till much later game.
 
Makavcio, don't you find it is necessary to get your culture rolling early in the game? Also, I understood that building culture was a cornerstone to fend off cultural victories, so the more you accumulate the better.
 
If I am trying to rush a wonder I use tradition to get a monument in the capital to build a worker sooner and improve my tiles. Otherwise I build the monument in the capital, then tradition.

In a few games I have gone liberty AND tradition and in those cases I work the liberty tree then get museums from the tradition policy.
 
I never build monuments in BNW in my early cities, for pretty much the same reason as Makavcio. The extra scout is almost always more valuable to me than the early monument, whether I find more ruins or more civilizations/city-states.
 
Cicerosaurus said:
Makavcio, don't you find it is necessary to get your culture rolling early in the game? Also, I understood that building culture was a cornerstone to fend off cultural victories, so the more you accumulate the better.
Click to expand...
Culture is usually my top priority. We only differ in our approach in obtaining it.

In the very beginning, I put my production in scouts in order to find 1 cultural ruin. I almost always succeed and the ruin is worth as much as 15 turns of having a monument (epic speed). After discovering the ruin, I can instantly open tradition. It happens much earlier in comparison to a situation where I build a monument and wait for its cultural output.

With tradition's opener in place, getting to my 2nd policy takes almost no time. Furthermore, at the same time, I'm able to scout my surroundings and make contact with city states. It can yield a lot of gold and quite often can I befriend a cultural CS. Having focused on monument, I would be missing out on all of that, plus at least 1-2 more ruins.

The real cultural kick comes from guilds, which come a little later. Only great works, their products, justify construction of further cultural buildings. In GnK, I used to rush to amphitheaters, but now the juice is simply not worth the squeeze.

The only problem with my approach is, seldom as it is, that I may not find a cultural ruin at all. If this happens, my initial development is indeed crippled.

PS.
Shoshone, baby!
 
Cicerosaurus said:
Heck, if I can't pop 4 goody huts then I am ready to quit!

I have never played as Shoshone- I'm still trying to pep up Austria :)
Click to expand...
Try them. These guys are crazy.
You say 4 ruins? With Shoshone you get: +30 culture, +1 pop, +enough religion to fund a pantheon, +1 pop. Sounds nice, doesn't it? ;)
 
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