New Game Speeds

BlueGenie · Aug 17, 2016

Maybe, I am not sure what will happen when the last of the time increments have reached the end.
The time and dating sets also set the amount of turns that all human history in the game go through.
Like the current Eternity lasts for 8145 turns and on that turn it's the year 5052 (and a half) AD.
How it counts onwards from there I don't know, and not sure it should be at year 5052 AD at all.

I adjusted it on mine to be 13680 turns from 50'000 BC to 3600 AD, which is where Normal ends right now too after 1064 turns.
Snail reaches even higher, 8094.5 AD, though I think the last 3 are miss-calculated and should be 1, 8, 1 months and not the 12, 86, 12 they currently are.

Joseph, maybe check that out?

Cheers

JosEPh_II · Aug 17, 2016

For all GS these "Range of years" for each Era was the basis for the turn increments.

Preh Era was based on it lasting 44,000 yrs (Ancient would start as close to 6000BC as possible)
Ancient based on 4000 yrs (class would start close to~2000BC )
Class on 2600 yrs (Med start~600 AD)
Med on 700 yrs (Ren start~1300 AD)
Ren on 400 yrs (Ind start~1700AD)
Ind 220 yrs Mod start~1920AD)
Modern 100 (TH start~2020AD)
TH 980 (Gal start~3,000AD)
Gal 2000 (Future start~5,000AD)
Future is the "fudge factor" since it has only 1 tech Future Tech

Number of Techs per Era was also part of the equation. With Preh having 100 techs, at the time I started this, it was the base. This was how the "number of years per turn" was figured to fit the Era Date range.

The number of Techs/Era (when I started this) was:
Preh =100
Anc = 90
Class = 60
Med = 44
Ren = 58
Ind = 91
Modern = 92
TH = 190
Gal = 54

Since Preh = 100, all other era were a % from the base of 100.

Then GS turn range was factored in. This was the range I used as a goal (each would have a variance with Gal/Future being the Fudge Era(s) Gal on Normal);
Normal 1000 turns (actual 1064)
Epic 2000 (actual 1999)
Marathon 3000 (actual 3015)
Snail 5000 (actual 4990? smudged notes might be 4975

)
Eon 7000 (actual 7005)
Eternity 8000 (actual 8145)

You can take it from there.

JosEPh

BlueGenie · Aug 18, 2016

Right now, without me doing any changes, you have:

Normal Year
Month Turns Total Years -50000,0
5280 100 528000 44000,0 -6000,0
540 90 48600 4050,0 -1950,0
500 60 30000 2500,0 550,0
192 50 9600 800,0 1350,0
75 64 4800 400,0 1750,0
29 100 2900 241,7 1991,7
12 100 1200 100,0 2091,7
60 200 12000 1000,0 3091,7
24 200 4800 400,0 3491,7
12 100 1200 100,0 3591,7
T Turns 1064

Epic Year
Month Turns Total Years -50000,0
2640 200 528000 44000,0 -6000,0
267 180 48060 4005,0 -1995,0
250 120 30000 2500,0 505,0
108 88 9504 792,0 1297,0
42 115 4830 402,5 1699,5
16 182 2912 242,7 1942,2
6 184 1104 92,0 2034,2
42 280 11760 980,0 3014,2
48 500 24000 2000,0 5014,2
12 150 1800 150,0 5164,2
T Turns 1999

Marathon Year
Month Turns Total Years -50000,0
1510 350 528500 44041,7 -5958,3
150 320 48000 4000,0 -1958,3
130 230 29900 2491,7 533,3
60 160 9600 800,0 1333,3
21 230 4830 402,5 1735,8
9 325 2925 243,8 1979,6
4 330 1320 110,0 2089,6
18 670 12060 1005,0 3094,6
120 200 24000 2000,0 5094,6
12 200 2400 200,0 5294,6
T Turns 3015

Snail Year
Month Turns Total Years -50000,0
1008 525 529200 44100,0 -5900,0
160 450 72000 6000,0 100,0
100 300 30000 2500,0 2600,0
43 225 9675 806,3 3406,3
16 290 4640 386,7 3792,9
6 460 2760 230,0 4022,9
3 460 1380 115,0 4137,9
12 950 11400 950,0 5087,9
86 280 24080 2006,7 7094,6
12 1000 12000 1000,0 8094,6
T Turns 4940

Eons Year
Month Turns Total Years -50000,0
754 700 527800 43983,3 -6016,7
76 630 47880 3990,0 -2026,7
71 420 29820 2485,0 458,3
27 315 8505 708,8 1167,1
12 420 5040 420,0 1587,1
4 635 2540 211,7 1798,8
2 635 1270 105,8 1904,6
9 1330 11970 997,5 2902,1
12 920 11040 920,0 3822,1
1 1000 1000 83,3 3905,4
T Turns 7005

Eternity Year Aim
Month Turns Total Years -50000
660 800 528000 44000,0 -6000,0 -20000
67 720 48240 4020,0 -1980,0 -2000
60 500 30000 2500,0 520,0 550
24 360 8640 720,0 1240,0 1350
10 480 4800 400,0 1640,0 1750
4 730 2920 243,3 1883,3 1990
2 735 1470 122,5 2005,8 2090
8 1520 12160 1013,3 3019,2 3090
18 1300 23400 1950,0 4969,2 3500
1 1000 1000 83,3 5052,5 3600
T Turns 8145

So Normal ends year 3591
Epic year 5164
Marathon year 5294
Snail year 8094
Eons year 3905
and Eternity year 5052

That's why I wondered, the years the speeds span, not the turns they take. I thought that was clear in my last post Joe.

((In Eons there is an iDayIncrement at the end instead of iMonthIncrement. None other have this.
Is that on purpose?))

Cheers

tmv · Aug 18, 2016

I find it curious that in all cases the clock "speeds up" near the end. What is the rationale for that?

JosEPh_II · Aug 18, 2016

It's the future and we only guess how fast things will be discovered, I was not concerned with the Year the eras ended on. Nor if the dates speed up. What does it really matter?

In all the GS (except Normal) the Future era is the most vague because it only has 1 tech, so it's the "fudge" era. It's just extra turns for continued play IF anyone ever gets there on the faster speeds. And wants to research ALL techs even the Future Tech. Which is just a placeholder anyway.

I have serious doubts that any C2C game started in the Preh era will ever make it to the Future era on any GS longer than marathon. Snail, Eon, and Eternity maybe for a diehards like Talin who purposefully restrains from using Conquest or Mastery Victory conditions to wipe out all other Civs.

Can they be adjusted to be more Uniform and all end on a close to same date, yeah. But why? Aesthetics for the perfectionist perhaps? :dunno:

EDIT: Nice tables by the way BG. :thumbsup:

JosEPh

Dancing Hoskuld · Aug 18, 2016

tmv said:
I find it curious that in all cases the clock "speeds up" near the end. What is the rationale for that?

That is the way Civ has always been. It mirrors RL history of number of things happening :lol:

tmv · Aug 18, 2016

Dancing Hoskuld said:
That is the way Civ has always been. It mirrors RL history of number of things happening

I think that was a bit ambiguos on my part, or perhaps a bad translation. I would expect the "turn clock" to be monotonic, covering a long time per turn in the beginning and a shorter time the more advanced the game is. But that doesn't always happen:

In Normal: 12 months - 60 months
In Epic: 6 months - 42 months - 48 months
In Marathon: 4 months - 18 months - 120 months
In Snail: 3 months - 12 months - 86 months
In Eon: 2 months - 9 months - 12 months
In Eternity: 2 months - 8 months - 18 months

Edit: I started a new game on 9275 (Noble) and reached Sed. Lifestyle in 15240 BC (Round 158), 2 Cities, founded Shamanism, 1197 :gold:

(+ 33), 145 :science:

/ turn, 138 points

BlueGenie · Aug 19, 2016

How does one change the rate at which Great Generals appear from combat?

Cheers

JosEPh_II · Aug 19, 2016

tmv said:
I think that was a bit ambiguos on my part, or perhaps a bad translation. I would expect the "turn clock" to be monotonic, covering a long time per turn in the beginning and a shorter time the more advanced the game is. But that doesn't always happen:

In Normal: 12 months - 60 months

In Epic: 6 months - 42 months - 48 months

In Marathon: 4 months - 18 months - 120 months

In Snail: 3 months - 12 months - 86 months

In Eon: 2 months - 9 months - 12 months

In Eternity: 2 months - 8 months - 18 months

<snip>

Why is this a concern?

No it doesn't happen. Several reasons, as I have already explained the last 2 Eras are really Fudge factor eras. And by doing it the way I did I eliminated some extra iDayIncrements that was used from the originals. Less XML lines per Eras for the last 4, or was it 5 eras really, that had another set of increments to factor.

And as BlueGenie pointed out I left 1 iDayIncrement in, when I could've changed it to iMonthIncrement with a value of >1<. Why? Just one less cut/copy/paste to do for something that gave the same result.

I just don't see this kind of scrutiny over other modders' works. And this one actually functions too.

JosEPh

JosEPh_II · Aug 19, 2016

BlueGenie said:
How does one change the rate at which Great Generals appear from combat?

Cheers

I think you need to ask StrategyOnly.

JosEPh

tmv · Aug 19, 2016

It's not a big concern, it's just a bit of curiosity. A (small) concern is perhaps the era division in Snail from Classical onwards, but even that is just aesthetics.

My point is, I am happy with these changes, and I'm certainly going to try the new option, too. Your changes are just a bit more visible than most of the others (If you look at the SVN log, there are often 3 commits of yours in a row, not everyone switches off religions - I know I don't - so for some people these commits don't change anything, pure bugfixes and speedups won't get any complaints, and if you disregard bugfixes and making religions optional for a moment, most of the commits in the last month have been yours), so these commits will get a lot of scrutiny right now. But it's not all criticism.

JosEPh_II · Aug 19, 2016

@tmv,
Thank you for the words of support. I don't get that much.

Unfortunately the Option is still on Hold. It shows up in the Option list (last one) but it does not work. And I have No Clue why. So I'm at the mercy of whomever will help. I'm :wallbash:

at the moment from frustration.

And if I put the Commit back in that makes all game starts start with the 1 city tile (unless you choose Minimum City Borders) I'll be scalped, tarred and feathered, and run out of the Mod on a rail. I'm not in good graces anymore, if I ever really was.

Just seems I have to do extra hoop jumping to prove myself and then I get labeled as "emotional". This paragraph will just sink me further in the "hot water" I'm already in too. :/ Oh well, I live up to my sig line all the time.

JosEPh

tmv · Aug 19, 2016

As far as I can see, replacement conditions are only used right now in CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml, starting in line 520, for Upscaled Building and Unit costs. If I understand correctly, you need to give the new option a tag (ReplacementID), and a condition to use it (ReplacementCondition).

Thunderbrd · Aug 19, 2016

Why is this a concern?

I'm not sure I'm following his chart correctly here but shouldn't the ratios between the game speeds be all equal as closely as possible?

BlueGenie · Aug 19, 2016

I've scrutinised others work in just as much detail before Joe, you're not special with that. *wink*
And I only did that now because it came up when I was checking to make own changes to a My_Mods file for me for Eternity Game Speed, otherwise I'd not have checked it either.

As for the generals that needs to be set by game speed too I though, so is why I asked here. I did not ask you specifically Joe, I asked in teh forum for anyone that knew to answer.

Cheers

JosEPh_II · Aug 19, 2016

tmv said:
As far as I can see, replacement conditions are only used right now in CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml, starting in line 520, for Upscaled Building and Unit costs. If I understand correctly, you need to give the new option a tag (ReplacementID), and a condition to use it (ReplacementCondition).

I did that as I was directed to do.

My current non working CultureLevelInfo file is in the Option thread with my last post.

At BG,
SO changed them awhile back and made them happen to few, and then was reminded he had done that change and he reverted it. See SVN changelog thread.

JosEPh

Thunderbrd · Aug 19, 2016

JosEPh_II said:
I did that as I was directed to do.

My current non working CultureLevelInfo file is in the Option thread with my last post.

At BG,
SO changed them awhile back and made them happen to few, and then was reminded he had done that change and he reverted it. See SVN changelog thread.

JosEPh

Don't stress. I'll help you through this but I'm having a hard time knowing what I can assume you already understand and what you don't so just be patient and we'll work through it till it works.

JosEPh_II · Aug 19, 2016

Assume I'm xml stupid. Any thing I know about it is from this CFC forum starting back in RoM days.

My last Formal programming days were back in 1983 in Fortran which I passed with an A. I flunked Cobol in 1979 using Punch Cards! (Killed my 4.0 grade avg.

) Because the Cobol teacher was too busy writing a new Cobol manual and would not teach her students how to do Cobol on a CRT terminal. And for her 4 classes she had 1 hour a week for students to come see her for help. Every Tuesday at 1:00PM till 2:00PM there was a line that went out of the cluster of Univ. offices were she had her office. I got Lots of help, Not!

In 1985 when I had to quit school before my semester of Student teaching for mathematics, I had gotten my GPA back up to a 3.6+. But the wife graduated Business school pregnant with our 3rd child and we were starving on the GI bill allotments we received back then. In fact because we were both prior military and white we were denied Food Stamps. I was told face to face by the head of the local agency that if I would Leave my wife and kids they could get food stamps. And this was the real kicker, we were also told that if we were african american we would have food stamps that very day. I dropped out of school and went back to driving a Cement mixer truck in central Oklahoma for $8.50/hr. And that was the end of my higher education. 186 hours of College work and Nothing to show for it but a slap in the face from the Federal and Local Gov't agencies. Want to talk to me about prejudice?! Or entitlement?!

JosEPh

Thunderbrd · Aug 19, 2016

lol... I get everything you just said there.

There's a lot to XML that's extremely intuitive once you get the gist of the concept of how it stores information for the game to use. You're probably not so far from understanding it to that depth. Makes it easier when you can then go the next step and research exactly how the tag is programmed to behave in the code. I won't try to go that far with you though... you can use me as the code whisperer for as long as you want.

JosEPh_II · Aug 23, 2016

Some more "tweaks to balances" to GS coming later today.

EDIT: Now committed to SVN 9282

JosEPh

New Game Speeds

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