[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

drwulf88 · Aug 31, 2006

drwulf88 said:
What would you guys say to making the Trojan Horse invisible to enemy units, like a shadow. I'm not a Trojan Horse buff or anything, but I thought that the city that took the horse in was at war with the people inside the horse. We can't do that in this game. I think it would be fun to load up a few guys and take them into enemy land to spring out and cause some havoc. If they had hunters or something they could see it coming, but otherwise 3-4 dudes just pop-up out of thin air. I only play this mod multiplayer, and haven't tried using the horse on a computer civ. Does the horse work that way with them? Humans are a little harder to trick. Just a suggestion from a BIG fan. You guys have done a great job with this mod.

I don't mean to be a pest, but I just wanted to get all your thoughts on this. It seams that this is a weak unit at the moment. Since it is the only thing you get from the tech you need to get it, it makes it an almost pointless tech. Am I not seeing the correct way to use this unit?

Grillick · Aug 31, 2006

The only real value I've found for the Trojan horse is when a buffer state won't give me open borders to get to my enemy. I can shuttle troops through on the Horse, to do battle with my real foe.

AncientSion · Aug 31, 2006

Im just playing my second game as the vampire-race and this is a pretty difficult game. For some reason another evil-aligned race declared war on me and is rushing and raiding me with hunters, while my blood pets are basicly no force. Fortunally i just got Horsemen, so will at least be able to defend myself.

Just for the record, are Hunter Recon-group ? If so, is there any promotion against them ? I tried melee and archer traits, but they wont work. That really sucks, since hunters already have power 3...

Kael · Aug 31, 2006

AncientSion said:
Im just playing my second game as the vampire-race and this is a pretty difficult game. For some reason another evil-aligned race declared war on me and is rushing and raiding me with hunters, while my blood pets are basicly no force. Fortunally i just got Horsemen, so will at least be able to defend myself.

Just for the record, are Hunter Recon-group ? If so, is there any promotion against them ? I tried melee and archer traits, but they wont work. That really sucks, since hunters already have power 3...

There is no promotion against recon units, which is a part of their strength. They are very dangerous, especially hunters (in their era) and are intended to be a force to contend with.

AncientSion · Aug 31, 2006

Okay then. I just find it extremly hard to defeat them, because once they enter your terrain they usually have power 3, at least one promotion (+20%) and almost always terrain cover, +50%.

It is, theoreticly, possibly, to give units power values of 2.50, or 2.75 ?

retro V · Aug 31, 2006

AncientSion said:
I just find it extremly hard to defeat them...

One hunter is unlikely to defeat one bloodpet fully fortified in your cities. If they send two, you should have 2 bloodpets in defence. If the problem is protecting your improvements, then you have to face a risk for a reward. Sending weaker units to counter stronger enemy units will obviously be a challenge, you just have to decide if saving a wheat farm, or whatever, is worth it.

drwulf88 · Aug 31, 2006

If you have the adaptive trait and choose the barb. trait, does it instantly put you at peace with the barbs? Then if you pick another trait later does it put you back to war with them?

AncientSion · Aug 31, 2006

retro V said:
One hunter is unlikely to defeat one bloodpet fully fortified in your cities. If they send two, you should have 2 bloodpets in defence. If the problem is protecting your improvements, then you have to face a risk for a reward. Sending weaker units to counter stronger enemy units will obviously be a challenge, you just have to decide if saving a wheat farm, or whatever, is worth it.

Wow, where exactly did you read that im talking about defending my cities

?
Im talking about doing anything from keeping the hunters from raiding.
Its obvious they cant siege me, with hunters -% on city attack and fortify bonus.
Well anyways, i was horsemen now, and those do better.

Just btw, what exactly do first-strikes do ? Once i had a horsemen attacking a hunter, and i had a win chance of 50%. When i choose firststrike I promotion (drill) odds increased to about 53 %. I dont know the chance with 20% more strength instead, but i think it should be more than with Drill I. Can anyone explain the mechanic behind First-Strikes ?

retro V · Aug 31, 2006

You're right, you only discussed hunters entering your terrain, but I thought I covered that point too. It's good that you have horsemen to protect your empire now; when the enemy starts sending in rangers, you merely upgrade to horse archers and so the cycle begins again

First strikes are just that, an extra 'free shot'. After a battle, you can look at the combat logs by pressing ctrl-tab. Each unit in a skirmish does a gradeable amount of damage to the other, the higher the attack rating difference (strength difference after bonuses/maluses (forget the latin spelling )), the higher the damage. Succesful hits against each other are determined by a random number generator, so even very powerful units can be defeated by weaker units if they're lucky; hence the chance of success percenatages. That's the basics, but a unit with extra first strikes means they will get a free shot in first and a chance of other first strikes determined by another randomly generated number.

Kael · Aug 31, 2006

drwulf88 said:
If you have the adaptive trait and choose the barb. trait, does it instantly put you at peace with the barbs? Then if you pick another trait later does it put you back to war with them?

Barbarian isnt one of the traits you can pick.

Nikis-Knight · Aug 31, 2006

AncientSion said:
Wow, where exactly did you read that im talking about defending my cities ?
Im talking about doing anything from keeping the hunters from raiding.
Its obvious they cant siege me, with hunters -% on city attack and fortify bonus.
Well anyways, i was horsemen now, and those do better.

Iifc, recon units cannot pillage, you aren't in too much trouble, right?

Kael · Aug 31, 2006

XplorR said:
I like the addition of the adaptive trait. But I'm not familiar enough with the choices given. Is there a way to add a mouse over explanation for the leader traits, when you're asked to choose a new one?

I tried and I couldn't find a decent way to do this. Sorry.

retro V · Aug 31, 2006

Nikis-Knight said:
..recon units cannot pillage, you aren't in too much trouble..

Good point, forgot about that. All hunters are good for are levelling off animals and filling up cages. If the AI sends them across the homefront, let them drop at your walls. (For PvE, hunters make good hit and run units against weak axes, I build almost no horsemen when hunters serve any purpose horsemen have).

P.S. I'm not dissing horsemen

Three movement points is useful sometimes, they are a worthy addition to any army.

seamus75 · Aug 31, 2006

Hello,

Just wanted to let you know, since the j patch I have not been able to use "birds" for recon missions from a hunter. I can from a city but not on the traveling units. Here is a pic of the menu for my Lunan Hawk, as well as a save game if you'd like a closer look. Also my workers seem to be able to build pirate coves anywhere on the map - not just on the coast.

Thanks,
Seamus

Kael · Aug 31, 2006

seamus75 said:
Hello,

Just wanted to let you know, since the j patch I have not been able to use "birds" for recon missions from a hunter. I can from a city but not on the traveling units. Here is a pic of the menu for my Lunan Hawk, as well as a save game if you'd like a closer look. Also my workers seem to be able to build pirate coves anywhere on the map - not just on the coast.

Thanks,
Seamus

Pirate cove will be fixed in 0.16.

I'll check out the hawks.

Kael · Aug 31, 2006

seamus75 said:
Hello,

Just wanted to let you know, since the j patch I have not been able to use "birds" for recon missions from a hunter. I can from a city but not on the traveling units. Here is a pic of the menu for my Lunan Hawk, as well as a save game if you'd like a closer look. Also my workers seem to be able to build pirate coves anywhere on the map - not just on the coast.

Thanks,
Seamus

Thanks, both the hawks and pirate coves will be fixed in 0.16.

Gunner · Sep 1, 2006

First of all I'd like to thank Kael and the dev team for this amazing mod. Believe it or not, this is the first time I have tried FfH, and its great! Now I wish I had tried it sooner. :thumbsup:

I think my favorite part is the huge amount of experience and cool promotions your units and heroes can get. You really can get attached to them.

Kael said:
I tried and I couldn't find a decent way to do this. Sorry.

I wonder if you could do some type of thing with a popup which tells you the turn before you are able to switch that it will happen next turn. That way you'd be given warning and could think about or lookup the traits to make a better choice.

jselsmark · Sep 1, 2006

I was surfing through city production when something struck me as odd:

I had recently (well... quite some turns ago, but still fairly recent) conquered a city from the calabim and whiped out their race. One of the reasons I kept the city was because of the "Tomb of Sucellus" wonder which gives +6 culture +2 great prophet and +1 life mana.

BUT when I wieved my city, I got all the benifits EXCEPT the bonus to culture... is this intentional or a bug?

screenshot has been added so you can see for yourselves...

TheJopa · Sep 1, 2006

Anyone saw strange unit behavior when entering enemy ancient forests? I sent my horseman to enter ancient forest of vile ljosafar. He instead moved 1 tile southern, and my axeman, which was in his ex-stack (but who I didn't order to move) gets into ancient forest. Also when large stack enters ancient forest, units sometimes get randomly dispersered. This happens quite often.

retro V · Sep 1, 2006

That bug would make a nice feature.

Think 'Wandering Woods', the Ancient Forests confuse unwary travellers or disrupt uninvited vistors, causing them to get totally lost and come out the wrong sides, or return whence they came

[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

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