WW2-Global

Just wanted to say, I've been following your playtest too IarnGreiper, keep it up. It gives me something cool to read.

I look forward to version 2.0.

Report for March 1940:
The Reich now controls Corsica,too. We had heavy tank fights with GB in the middle east. Due to the Luftwaffe superiority we managed to get the upper hand on those nasty Matildas. In India the Blitzkrieg falterred on Matilda guarded cities. However Mandelay had many infantry divisions but no Matildas and we finally managed to meet our Japanese brothers in arms there. I am still in awe that GB hasn t finished Thainland, they have only 2 cities and 4 divisions left. We are waiting for infantry to take the Himalaya fortesses [my own house rule: no tank attacks in those areas].
Heavy naval fights in the Biscaya with Uncle Sam. Lost 2 dozen Uboots but killed many capital ships. our new BismarkC sunk their eilte flagship New York single handed.

But The Railroad Was An Important Factor For The British In Transporting All The Wealth That India Had. I Don't Think Removing Railroads In India Is A Good Idea. IS Was An Important Part Of The Infrastructure. The Current Railroad System In India Is The Fourth Largest In The World, And Most Of It Was Set Up During The Time Of The British Raj.

Despair888 said:

Just wanted to say, I've been following your playtest too IarnGreiper, keep it up. It gives me something cool to read.

Click to expand...

I will do my best.

Report from the frontlines, early April 1940.
The Hauptquatier of the Deutsches Reich is proud to announce that everything is well on all fronts.
Operation Bergsteigen (Mountaineering) - our invasion of the Chinese fortresses in the Himalaya was an outstanding success. Our SS elite troups showed the world that they can operate in the most harsh environmental conditions. However we suppose the Tenno of japan was not amused seen the SS marching through the streets of Lanchow when his troops finally arrived. Meanwhile the Luftwaffe paved the way for the German East India Kampfgruppe. Our objective is to seize as many objectives not defended adequately (Matildas) and use the Japanese as cannon fodder for the British tanks.

eaglefox said:

But The Railroad Was An Important Factor For The British In Transporting All The Wealth That India Had. I Don't Think Removing Railroads In India Is A Good Idea. IS Was An Important Part Of The Infrastructure. The Current Railroad System In India Is The Fourth Largest In The World, And Most Of It Was Set Up During The Time Of The British Raj.

Click to expand...

eaglefox,

The point is that I plan to remove all railroads in version 2.1
and increase it with increased move rates for roads.
Roads will instead represent both railroads and roads.
Thus version 2.0 will go one step in that direction.

It will be possible to build railroads with large numbers of workers
allocated. This does in fact represent heavy investments in rolling
stock.
As mentioned earlier Germany for example could only move 6 divisions
per week with rail during WW2.
The above problem was solved many years ago in wargames (board and later
computer) with a limit for how many unit you could move by rail each turn.
However it seems like the current solution in Civ (with unlimited movement
for all units) will stay even in Civ 4.
Its hard to see why!

Rocoteh

IarnGreiper said:

Report from the frontlines, early April 1940.
The Hauptquatier of the Deutsches Reich is proud to announce that everything is well on all fronts.
Operation Bergsteigen (Mountaineering) - our invasion of the Chinese fortresses in the Himalaya was an outstanding success. Our SS elite troups showed the world that they can operate in the most harsh environmental conditions. However we suppose the Tenno of japan was not amused seen the SS marching through the streets of Lanchow when his troops finally arrived. Meanwhile the Luftwaffe paved the way for the German East India Kampfgruppe. Our objective is to seize as many objectives not defended adequately (Matildas) and use the Japanese as cannon fodder for the British tanks.

Click to expand...

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for the reports.
This is a very interesting playtest.

The strike against India seems to be a good idea!
Overall I think the strategic situation is very good for you.
Welcome back.

Rocoteh

On version 2.0: 10 cities have been removed in Africa.
It will increase realism and also increase game-speed.
Africa had no great military or economic value during WW2.
Britain for example only set up a few infantry divisions in Africa.

Hello Rocoteh, thank you for your feedback.

On Africa: the oil in the north was of great strategic value in WW2. However with traderoutes removed the oil wells will have little to no value in game.

IarnGreiper said:

Hello Rocoteh, thank you for your feedback.

On Africa: the oil in the north was of great strategic value in WW2. However with traderoutes removed the oil wells will have little to no value in game.

Click to expand...

IarnGreiper,

Yes I am aware of the fact that it will cause some negative effects
also. However the positive effects are very strong:
Since load time and waiting time will be heavily reduced the scenario
should be much more fun to play.

One should also have in mind that Civ3/C3C lacks a strategic warfare
module. You can for example have the situation where Britain
has no fleet and Germany have build 400 U-boats.
Resources will still continue to flow into Britain without problem!
Thus I think the new system only will create a very marginal loss
in realism.

Rocoteh

I am well aware of zour intentions and I think thez will be better for the whole game indeed. Maybe adding a HUGE trade bonus could make them important again.

an option i've implemented is to include a small wonder somewhere in the mid-game that allows for trade. iow, the human player can strategically build it in a locale where they'd most like to import/export.

i've named it "Overseas Trading Company"

the pros clearly outweigh the cons with this method...

IarnGreiper said:

I am well aware of zour intentions and I think thez will be better for the whole game indeed. Maybe adding a HUGE trade bonus could make them important again.

Click to expand...

IarnGreiper,

OK I will look it over.

Rocoteh

El Justo said:

an option i've implemented is to include a small wonder somewhere in the mid-game that allows for trade. iow, the human player can strategically build it in a locale where they'd most like to import/export.

i've named it "Overseas Trading Company"

the pros clearly outweigh the cons with this method...

Click to expand...

El Justo,

Yes that is a good idea.

I still think the breakthrough you have achieved is the most
important with regard to scenario-design since C3C was released.
Before it scenarios with huge maps was impossible.

Rocoteh

Okay, I got a question about removing the air/sea trade.

Japan for example, has coal on the island where Tokyo is.
Since it is not connected to the mainland and Shanghai, will railroads still be able to be built on the Mainland? (There is no coal on Asia for Japan until they conquer a lot more)

Oh and to El Justo's idea of having to build a wonder to get the trade. I think that's a good idea, the time between turns was not a huge deal I thought. It was just the extremely long loading times that were a pain. So if it loads faster, the turn times are only super long for the first two to three turns anyways.

Rocoteh said:

El Justo,

Yes that is a good idea.

I still think the breakthrough you have achieved is the most
important with regard to scenario-design since C3C was released.
Before it scenarios with huge maps was impossible.

Rocoteh

Click to expand...

thanks Rocoteh. it opens a whole new realm for us scenario designers and player alike.

Hi Rocoteh,

It has been a long time since I posted here. I have been busy with the typical things; work, life etc. But the lure of Civ3 and specifically this scenario brought me back a few weeks ago. I downloaded v1.9 and started a game as the Soviet Union playing on Diety. It is now turn 5, 1941 and I did not take detailed notes, but here are some of my observations to this point.

The SU is pretty pitiful at the start, the best offensive unit being the T-26 light tank and the airforce is a joke, plus absolutely no artillery! So my first orders of business were raising a worker force to modernize the rails and connect my cities. This may lead to an unrealistic mobility for forces in Civ3, but from a gaming point of view that mobility is a force multiplier wayyyy to important to ignore. I also concentrated on building up SU industrial base, while trying to make nice with every other country.

I did nab Warsaw from under the nose of the Germans, just could not resist. This of coure led to war with the Anglo-French allies. Since I had the war going I sent an expedition down to take out some of Persia, but my progress was very slow using only the airforces, T-26s and the Mech units.

After peace was restored I set my sights on Turkey, but with the massive fortifications, I had to build up my artillery (1/2 reg, 1/2heavy) before the attack. If the idea was to forstall any early moves against Turkey, it worked!! However, Turkey did finally fall to me in early 1940. Late in 1940 after stealing a developing tech as fast as possible, I had built up a modest force of T34/76 and KV-1s plus arty and the existing airforce. With the wonders producing militia units by the horde I decided on a pre-emptive strike on Finland in very early 1941. I took out Finland in one crushing turn and then braced for the Germano-Italian counterattack. The AI did find some holes in my defenses but I lost no cities and was able to re-orient my armour and arty to blunt their attack.

Now I have dished out a little pounding to the germans, I am making peace so I can build a bigger airforce (the Pe-2 and and then the Sturmoviks are now here!!!). Meanwhile I am going to try and take out the Nordic countries which Germany has mysteriously left completely alone. The Axis is busily trying to conquer the Greeks, so hopefully they will be distracted until I am ready to launch a full-scale offensive into Germany, probably in mid-late 1941.

More soon and thanks again for the great scenario. I am seriously looking forward to the giant version 2.0 and 2.1 that I have been reading about.

Report from the front, April 1940
After we reallocated the Reichsmarine to the street of Gibraltar we are confident that the next school term in Algeria will start with German lessons. In the middle east we have witnessed epic tank battles on the Sinai peninsula. Finally the battle lines came to a rest west of the Suez channel. While the Brits hide behind their Matilda tanks we counter them with our outstanding German 88. Kampfgruppe III is doing well in capturing Hue. However, there is still resistance in southern India.
Thailand turned out to be both foolish and stubborn by not granting us the right of passage. When will will "liberate" them from the hands of the Brits they will deeply regret their decision.

Rocoteh said:

eaglefox,

The point is that I plan to remove all railroads in version 2.1
and increase it with increased move rates for roads.
Roads will instead represent both railroads and roads.
Thus version 2.0 will go one step in that direction.

It will be possible to build railroads with large numbers of workers
allocated. This does in fact represent heavy investments in rolling
stock.
As mentioned earlier Germany for example could only move 6 divisions
per week with rail during WW2.
The above problem was solved many years ago in wargames (board and later
computer) with a limit for how many unit you could move by rail each turn.
However it seems like the current solution in Civ (with unlimited movement
for all units) will stay even in Civ 4.
Its hard to see why!

Rocoteh

Click to expand...

yes i really don't understand what its gonna take to make the civ developers realize that rail cannot carry every. thing right away. it too needs time. i don't know rocoteh whether you have ever played a game called imperialism - i think it came out in 1995. there are many things in that game the civ guys can use, including limiting the capacity of the railway system. i guess removing rail is probably a good idea, but then roads needs to be able to move troops quite a distance to balance things out. they should you should atleast be able to travel half of western europe in one turn (1 week).

Front report, May 1940
As expected with the concentration of our navy in the street of Gibraltar we managed to bridge our Kampfgruppe A to former French Algeria. The resistance of the locals crumbled as they got to know the benefits of the German Reich [all luxuries but tobacco].
Kampfgruppe B came to rest at Suez since this position seems to be an excellent defensive position. While our FLAK and 88s guarded our stronghold, our Panzers swept the arabian peninsula of British remains. As expected the local arabs displayed little alligance to their former British empire and soon adopted to the Reich. Kampfgruppe C is still stuck in the Indian jungles relying on the Luftwaffe to suppress those Matilda heavy tanks.
Meanwhile Kampfgruppe D secured Myitkyina with the support of the Japanese airforce. Rangoon payed a bitter price by not surrendering at the hands of our Luftwaffe. The city was bombed to ruins to allow our forces maximum speed through the enemy controlled territory. The use of those nasty Matilda tanks have forced us to these mercyless air assaults. Thailand fell to the british because of their foolish pride of not granting us the right of passage. However they are now a small puzzle to our schemes of Asia. As soon as our Kampfgruppe D is fully rested it will lead the assault on Singapore followed by Kampfgruppe C.
As we lack any Navy there will need the expertise of Gerd von Rundsted to build some transports in Singapore. We will have to recycle some armored units for the needed materials, too.