WW2-Global

IarnGreiper said:
Rocoteh, I strongly recommend splitting the techs needed for both tanks. In history Panzer IVF2 was earlier and in game there is little reason not to build the better tank even it takes a turn longer.

IarnGreiper,

I am not sure how you mean here.

Panzer IV F2 needs Land 1942 and Panzer IV H needs Land 1943.

Rocoteh
 
German front report, October 1940
Captured Bombay and invaded French Indochine together with the Japanese. As the French are knocking on the western door we can not send any fresh troops east.
 
just making a suggestion :
I've played so far 2 turns only as the Germans(too many units, I get bored after 20 min of moving them) and I thought about something to make the scenario more historical. When Poland, or any other country is completely destroyed, all their units disappear, so why not place a city in the far north (there's all kind of empty space where we cant go) for every civ. That way when Poland falls, their forces are still there. To stop after that the AI from coming back, put mountains which are impassable IIRC around their city in the north to stop any land or sea units from moving out of their cities.
Apart from that, great scenario :goodjob:, even though I haven't played a lot, I really like all the details you put on this. :king:
 
However, some nations surrendered unconditionally in WW2. I think the present situation reflects that.
 
I think we should add the Pz IV D which is later upgraded to IV F2 and H to a certain level to cope with new threads. Then we have it, and the player can upgrade his units, what is now impossible with the Pz III (to that level). The Pz III remains but is upgraded to the StuG III. IIRC we had this discussion before.

Adler
 
IarnGreiper said:
No I mean Panzer IVF2 and Panther. I have never built Panzer IVF2 in my games so far.

IarnGreiper,

I see.

Panzer V needs Land 1942. That is a bug. It shall be Land 1943.
It will be corrected in version 2.1.

Rocoteh
 
IarnGreiper said:
German front report, October 1940
Captured Bombay and invaded French Indochine together with the Japanese. As the French are knocking on the western door we can not send any fresh troops east.

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for the report.

Do you have any plan on where to go from these positions?
Welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Adler17 said:
I think we should add the Pz IV D which is later upgraded to IV F2 and H to a certain level to cope with new threads. Then we have it, and the player can upgrade his units, what is now impossible with the Pz III (to that level). The Pz III remains but is upgraded to the StuG III. IIRC we had this discussion before.

Adler

Adler,

I think what you propose on Pz IV D and upgrades sounds
very good. Although Panzer IV D was a infantry support tank
it should have a place here.

Rocoteh
 
captain beaver said:
just making a suggestion :
I've played so far 2 turns only as the Germans(too many units, I get bored after 20 min of moving them) and I thought about something to make the scenario more historical. When Poland, or any other country is completely destroyed, all their units disappear, so why not place a city in the far north (there's all kind of empty space where we cant go) for every civ. That way when Poland falls, their forces are still there. To stop after that the AI from coming back, put mountains which are impassable IIRC around their city in the north to stop any land or sea units from moving out of their cities.
Apart from that, great scenario :goodjob:, even though I haven't played a lot, I really like all the details you put on this. :king:

captain beaver,

Thank you.

With regard to nations that continued to fight after formal surrender,
probably auto-production ( Free Polish units in Britain for example)
will work better.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh said:
IarnGreiper,

Thank you for the report.

Do you have any plan on where to go from these positions?
Welcome back.

Rocoteh

I continued to play that game until the dawn. During the next 12 turns I was able to puch back the French attempt to capture Stuttgard and even conquer the French mainland in early 1941. The remaining French forces in Italy lack the ability to counterstrike. Besides the fact it was already morning I ceased to play that game, since there was no real enemy left. Invading Africa with around 100 offensive units didn t sound fun.

Final resume of the high aggro playtest:
It as fun and perhaps even more challenging than other games. However the Ai depleted his units rather quick, which made most theatres an all or nothing war.
Some nations definately suffer from being aggressive like the USA or Italy (which is historically conrect however). France partly benefitted from it as they were able to take down Italy because the German absence on that theatre. However that took rather long given the fact that 8 British capital ships were permanently shelling Sicily, draining many Italian troops.
 
IarnGreiper said:
I continued to play that game until the dawn. During the next 12 turns I was able to puch back the French attempt to capture Stuttgard and even conquer the French mainland in early 1941. The remaining French forces in Italy lack the ability to counterstrike. Besides the fact it was already morning I ceased to play that game, since there was no real enemy left. Invading Africa with around 100 offensive units didn t sound fun.

Final resume of the high aggro playtest:
It as fun and perhaps even more challenging than other games. However the Ai depleted his units rather quick, which made most theatres an all or nothing war.
Some nations definately suffer from being aggressive like the USA or Italy (which is historically conrect however). France partly benefitted from it as they were able to take down Italy because the German absence on that theatre. However that took rather long given the fact that 8 British capital ships were permanently shelling Sicily, draining many Italian troops.

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for the report.
I have followed your playtest with great interest.

What I can remember it was the first time someone knocked out
Britain first and then launched Barbarossa while France was still
undefeated.
This strategy seems to have worked very well.

It have also been interesting to study the effects of high aggression
level for AI.

Your playtest have been of of great value for the development of version
2.1. Special credits will be given.

Thank you and welcome back with more comments and reports.

Rocoteh
 
So here is my final list of things to fix, suggestions etc. While the list is long, this is the best scenario I ever played, the length of the list reflects dedication not critisim. I break them down to smaller parts to make them easier to read.

Part I

Map: While I know there will be a new map next version, I have some comments:

Islands are of too little value with no sea trade. Maybe those islands can be super rich in trade resources making them a good source of income. Additionally the AI tends to go for special resources first.

GB is suffering from being on an island. I recomment giving them a special resource under their cities which generates extra trade.

Resources:

Furs: Add Furs to Norway, Finnland and Sweden.

Tabacco: already mentioned, Bulgaria and Turkey were important exporters of Tabacco. Sumatra is also very famous for its Tabacco, Kuba too.

Wine: Add wine to Germany, Spain and maybe even Greece and the Russian Krim peninsula. Remove wine from Antalya. I have never seen wineyards there.

Tropical Fruit: Add them to Cuba, to make Havanna happier. Change tropical fruits to be able to grow in oasis squares and add them to north Africa. Dates were and are the most exported trade good of those countries.

Uranium: Uranium and other radioactive ores were mined in eastern Germany until the downfall of the communist regime in 1990. They should be placed southeast of Berlin (or Dresden if it is on your 2.1 map). In the late war the producing lines and not the ore were the reason for Germany not getting enough enriched uranium.

Whales: add whales to north Norway, Iceland and Japan, as those were important whaling nations
 
IarnGreiper,

Thank you for your comments.

On islands and Great Britain:

Yes I think you are right. I will use this ideas for the new map.

On resources:

Very good suggestions. They will be implemented on the new map,
if not already done.

Welcome back with more comments.

Rocoteh
 
Part III

Map (terrain):

I really hope that there will be mountains on the 2.1 map between France and Spain. Actually they are quite rough http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/Central_pyrenees.jpg
and extend over the entire border
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pyrenees_composite_NASA.jpg
This should stop Germany or France from taking them out too easy.

Norway: There should be no Tundra at the coast. It should be hills instead which should resemble the fjord landscape better.

Finnland: remove irrigated grassland and add some forrest with game and swamp to reflect the landscape better.

Egypt: I hope with the new map, Suez won t grow at the expense of Cairo anymore.

Palestine and Syria: add some hills between the coastline and the dessert. Actually you can ski at the Golan heights.

Mexico: too green :)

Map (territories)

Balcans: Add German controlled Croatia in form of the city of Split at the Adrian Sea coast. Let Germany autoproduce special transports there at a low rate. Add some WW1 destroyers (the croatian ships were not up to date)

Caribean Sea: Add Puerto Rico for the Americans. They should be able to control the sea there better.

Saudi Arabia: They were an American puppet regime: The Saudi kingdom should be reassigned to be American

South America: I guess maybe some of them should be united. IMHO they cost a lot of processing power without real gain.

misc: avoid tiles with no ownership. If the player or AI expells someone those units are likely to be placed there. If Russia expells Japanese forces for example they happened to be teleported to the empty square near Aden and Muscat. I have seen up to 40 Japanese divisions there.

PS: remove Dutch Harbor please
 
Part III Nations

Great Britain:
More naval units should be placed outside the mother islands. The British Navy was divited all over the globe. I guess it s better for the game that they don t spend half of their Navy bombarding German minefields from turn 1. Place the in the Atlantic and let them chase around the German Panzerkreuzer Graf Spee.
Royal Air Force: They need more fighters or other nations to be turned down (also see Germany)
Singapore should have garrisons, maybe even Hong Kong should be beefed up more.

Denmark: Remove all their units. In the real war, they surrendered almost immediately. I expect with a larger map, capturing Denmark in a single turn won t be an option anymore. Sorry Danes, but in this game, Denmark is only a victim.

Norway: Add an airport in Oslo. Capturing the Oslo airport via paratroopers was the decisive coup de grace by the Germans. it allowed them to airlift troops and extent their air operations quickly.

Finnland: Give them artillery. They historically had some and with beefed up Soviet artillery they should have some counters too. Finland had 150 planes in the real war, too .

Soviets: They have too many air units in 1939. Even for Russian standarts most of them were hopelessly outdated and malfunction rate and never saw action.

France: They have a too strong airforce (see Germany for details). Also France had dedicated tank divisions, all their 40 tank battallions were integrated into mixed divisions. It might sound odd but I would totally revamp the French ground forces. Remove most or even all of their tank units. Give them mixed units with better offense than infantry but not with tank like movement. This should reflect the historical inablity of France in conducting tank warfare.
Their artillery was mostly WW1 stuff (see special comment on artillery forces in the unit part). Give them airfields enabling the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe to hit their planes on the ground.

Belgium: I hope that they have more than a single city in map version 2.1. Then there is room for more diverse units other than infantry. IIRC they had artillery, tanks and even a tiny airforce.

Italy: They are too strong for my taste. They should NOT have more tanks than Germany. I know that the German tank force was modest at the start of the war, but Italy was not a tank nation either. They have quite many artillery units, too.
East Africa: Italy should be on the loosing side more quickly

Spain: They should have better ground forces, including artillery

Persia: They should not be able to build tanks what they did in all my games.

Turkey: Why is Turkey made so strong? While the terrain in a good defensive position I see no reason to make them so tough. Other buffer nations like Persia seem to be right in term of Power. With map 2.1 there will be plenty of impassable terrain in the Caucasus, too (see comment on terrain and movement)

Germany:
The Luftwaffe in real WW2 by far outsized all other airforces and besides the British they outclassed the other airforces. Give them more fighter planes. In order to match the situation over England, add more fighter planes to GB. This will be needed with more cities to protect. The Luftwaffe should be able to use fighter planes offensively for quite a long time. Maybe reflect this by autoproducing ME 109 in Munich (actually Augsburg, which is too tiny to be on any map). Great Britain should get some Spitfire autoproduction as well.
I would remmend to revamp some German infantry divisions to German home guard divisions or another newborn unit with less attack value. This should reflect the fact that Germany could not use all of his troops offensively.
In actual war Germany had better artillery than most other nations (see unit section).


USA and Japan:
Both should receive autoproduced transports. As far as I experienced previous games. The AI always wants to use transports in some way. This should encourage both human players and the AI to fight over islands. As I meantioned with resources, adding specials will make the AI more likely to go after them.

China: Maybe unite them, if not make them stronger by immobile units and fortresses. Do not add autoproduced units as the Japanese already pump out to much infantry on the Asian mainland. If Japan happens to capture autoproducing cities they will eventually have 400 infantry divisions. They already amassed more than 200 in my previous games.
Right now communist infantry is also behaving very odd as they like to go everywhere but actual China. I have spotted them near Stalingrad when they are blocked by Soviet garrisons.
 
IarnGreiper said:
Part III

Map (terrain):

I really hope that there will be mountains on the 2.1 map between France and Spain. Actually they are quite rough http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/Central_pyrenees.jpg
and extend over the entire border
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pyrenees_composite_NASA.jpg
This should stop Germany or France from taking them out too easy.

Norway: There should be no Tundra at the coast. It should be hills instead which should resemble the fjord landscape better.

Finnland: remove irrigated grassland and add some forrest with game and swamp to reflect the landscape better.

Egypt: I hope with the new map, Suez won t grow at the expense of Cairo anymore.

Palestine and Syria: add some hills between the coastline and the dessert. Actually you can ski at the Golan heights.

Mexico: too green :)

Map (territories)

Balcans: Add German controlled Croatia in form of the city of Split at the Adrian Sea coast. Let Germany autoproduce special transports there at a low rate. Add some WW1 destroyers (the croatian ships were not up to date)

Caribean Sea: Add Puerto Rico for the Americans. They should be able to control the sea there better.

Saudi Arabia: They were an American puppet regime: The Saudi kingdom should be reassigned to be American

South America: I guess maybe some of them should be united. IMHO they cost a lot of processing power without real gain.

misc: avoid tiles with no ownership. If the player or AI expells someone those units are likely to be placed there. If Russia expells Japanese forces for example they happened to be teleported to the empty square near Aden and Muscat. I have seen up to 40 Japanese divisions there.

PS: remove Dutch Harbor please

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for your comments.

Mountains between France and Spain, Norway, Finland, Suez,
Palestine and Syria. Mexico:

Most of the proposed changes have been implemented on the new map.

Balcans:

Its a good idea. I will consider it.

Caribean Sea:

San Jose is on the new map.

Saudi Arabia:

Notes have been taken. I will consider it.

South America:

I will make a special comment on this issue later.

Tiles without ownership:

I understand its a problem, but its harder to solve then one can
think at first. Should I for example put the whole of Canada within
its real borders it will consume 6-7 more cities. For every city you
add it will slow down game-speed.

On Dutch Harbour:

Notes have been taken.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
IarnGreiper said:
Part III Nations

Great Britain:
More naval units should be placed outside the mother islands. The British Navy was divited all over the globe. I guess it s better for the game that they don t spend half of their Navy bombarding German minefields from turn 1. Place the in the Atlantic and let them chase around the German Panzerkreuzer Graf Spee.
Royal Air Force: They need more fighters or other nations to be turned down (also see Germany)
Singapore should have garrisons, maybe even Hong Kong should be beefed up more.

Denmark: Remove all their units. In the real war, they surrendered almost immediately. I expect with a larger map, capturing Denmark in a single turn won t be an option anymore. Sorry Danes, but in this game, Denmark is only a victim.

Norway: Add an airport in Oslo. Capturing the Oslo airport via paratroopers was the decisive coup de grace by the Germans. it allowed them to airlift troops and extent their air operations quickly.

Finnland: Give them artillery. They historically had some and with beefed up Soviet artillery they should have some counters too. Finland had 150 planes in the real war, too .

Soviets: They have too many air units in 1939. Even for Russian standarts most of them were hopelessly outdated and malfunction rate and never saw action.

France: They have a too strong airforce (see Germany for details). Also France had dedicated tank divisions, all their 40 tank battallions were integrated into mixed divisions. It might sound odd but I would totally revamp the French ground forces. Remove most or even all of their tank units. Give them mixed units with better offense than infantry but not with tank like movement. This should reflect the historical inablity of France in conducting tank warfare.
Their artillery was mostly WW1 stuff (see special comment on artillery forces in the unit part). Give them airfields enabling the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe to hit their planes on the ground.

Belgium: I hope that they have more than a single city in map version 2.1. Then there is room for more diverse units other than infantry. IIRC they had artillery, tanks and even a tiny airforce.

Italy: They are too strong for my taste. They should have more tanks than Germany. I know that the German tank force was modest at the start of the war, but Italy was not a tank nation either. They have quite many artillery units, too.
East Africa: Italy should be on the loosing side more quickly

Spain: They should have better ground forces, including artillery

Persia: They should not be able to build tanks what they did in all my games.

Turkey: Why is Turkey made so strong? While the terrain in a good defensive position I see no reason to make them so tough. Other buffer nations like Persia seem to be right in term of Power. With map 2.1 there will be plenty of impassable terrain in the Caucasus, too (see comment on terrain and movement)

Germany:
The Luftwaffe in real WW2 by far outsized all other airforces and besides the British they outclassed the other airforces. Give them more fighter planes. In order to match the situation over England, add more fighter planes to GB. This will be needed with more cities to protect. The Luftwaffe should be able to use fighter planes offensively for quite a long time. Maybe reflect this by autoproducing ME 109 in Munich (actually Augsburg, which is too tiny to be on any map). Great Britain should get some Spitfire autoproduction as well.
I would remmend to revamp some German infantry divisions to German home guard divisions or another newborn unit with less attack value. This should reflect the fact that Germany could not use all of his troops offensively.
In actual war Germany had better artillery than most other nations (see unit section).


USA and Japan:
Both should receive autoproduced transports. As far as I experienced previous games. The AI always wants to use transports in some way. This should encourage both human players and the AI to fight over islands. As I meantioned with resources, adding specials will make the AI more likely to go after them.

China: Maybe unite them, if not make them stronger by immobile units and fortresses. Do not add autoproduced units as the Japanese already pump out to much infantry on the Asian mainland. If Japan happens to capture autoproducing cities they will eventually have 400 infantry divisions. They already amassed more than 200 in my previous games.
Right now communist infantry is also behaving very odd as they like to go everywhere but actual China. I have spotted them near Stalingrad when they are blocked by Soviet garrisons.

IarnGreiper,

Thank you for your comments.

Great Britain:

The Royal Navy will be more spread out over the world in 2.1.
I think what you say concerning Singapore and Hong Kong is OK.

Denmark:

See my later post on South America and realism in general.

Norway:

Good idea.

Finland:

Agree.

Soviet:

I do not agree here. The Soviet OOB is accurate.
September 1939 Soviet had a large low-quality airforce.

France:

I can not agree. I understand your point, however France had
(some months after the outbreak of WW2) 4 armoured divisions,
3 light mechanized divisions and 5 cavalry divisions with a large amount of
tanks. Its true as you say: they spend 40 tank battalions to reinforce
the infantry, but that was not the whole tank-force.

Much time have been spend on the French ground, air and naval OOB:s.
I regard them as accurate.

Belgium:

Belgium will have 3 cities in version 2.1.

Italy:

Italy had 3 Armoured divisions during WW2: Ariete, Littorio and Centauro.
Never more. The Italian armoured units are very expensive to produce.
This reflect the inability of the industry in Italy to provide the army
with tanks in a relevant way.

Spain:

Spain was in bad shape after 3 years of Civil war.

Persia:

Agree.

Turkey:

Its made strong to prevent Soviet from a very unrealistic early
expansion in Asia. Before I made this changes there were constant
critique on that issue.

On Germany:

I can not agree. Again: I think the current OOB is accurate.
If I make Luftwaffe more powerful it would not be realistic.
The defeat Luftwaffe suffered in the Battle of Britain showed its problems:
The very short range of the Me-109. Me-110 was a very mediocre long range escort plane.

USA and Japan:

I think what you say here sounds good.

China:

Its possible I will unite them. No decision yet.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Hello Rocoteh, thanks for your swift answers. However I botched my statement on Italy by leaving out the word NOT.
However since I fully agree what you said above I strongly recommend reducing the actual number of tank unit Italy has. In version 2.0 they have 17 tank units altogether.

On the Luftwaffe, I fully agree with your comments on the short range of the ME109. I guess this will come to full effect in V2.1. However atm the advantage of the Luftwaffe on the continent does not fully reflect reality imho. I don t say the Luftwaffe needs better planes, I only state they should have more.

Greetings Iarn
 
On realism in WW2 scenarios:

What is realistic in a WW2 scenario or game?

At first: Everyone has a opinion on what is realistic in a WW2-scenario/game.
If you make a scenario on Ancient China (For example TKK by Sarevok)
few will have a opinion on realism.

Since I released WW2-Global December last year there have been much
critique on South America:

"No one ever invaded South America." "It should be excluded."
and so on.............

However once a WW2-scenario have started it is what-if.

A German invasion (I here assume Britain defeated and Soviet occupied
by Germany) of South America was in no way impossible.

In my opinion France holding out for 1 year is much more unrealistic
than a German invasion of South America or a US intervention.

For the same reason Denmark is in the scenario with its rather large
naval force. In reality Denmark was knocked out of the war fast.
In a scenario like this it must not be so.

In some cases you must made some trade-offs with realism.
It is for that reason Turkey is stronger than in reality.
The alternative would be an early "Southern Strike" by Soviet.

To end this short comment on the subject.
I have stated it before and I state it again:

The game-engine sets sharp limits for what you can simulate.
You can not simulate supply, Command and Control, weather and
strategic warfare. You can not prevent AI from placing 90% of its
army in one tile or spending its naval forces in suicide attacks.

Rocoteh
 
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