(3UC) 3rd Unique Component Project

I think the Eagle Warrior could use some reworking. Not much different than the Jaguar...

Something is wrong with India's 3rd unique component, it's not attaching to India at all.

I'm thinking a Termite Mound UI/UB or the Boomerang plane for CL's Australia.

For Indonesia, I will suggest that you rename Indonesia's current UB (Candi) into alun-alun and add Candi as a unique improvement as the 4th UC.

Alun-alun is like a central square / plaza, or open field. Place where people gather to socialize, it is also usually located in front of / near important governmental building. It is more suitable than Candi to replace Garden, and being a tropical country - this is probably our garden. Open field with some palm trees...



I think (as Indonesian), it is a more appropriate UC rather than Candi, which a city can have more than 1-2 candis nearby. Borobudur, which is a candi itself, has 7 candi(s) located near it. Full list of Candi can be found here

While alun-alun is usually located in the central of a city, a Candi is usually located not really near from settlements, as Candi - which is actually a Hindu/Buddhist temple - is usually a place where people meditate, in a silence, serene environment. This is a more suitable represented with unique improvement that produce faith.

Please tell me what you think - I could rewrite my proposal if you don't like it

Or candi could replace temple.... also, another unique can be the mahapatih...
Anyway, ideas:

Mahapatih
Replaces both great general and great admiral. When acquired as a great general, provides combat boost to naval units as well as to land ones, and increases unit production while stationed in a city. When acquired as a great admiral, if healing fleet would also increase the XP of adjacent units. Also, if acquired as a great admiral, the unit will receive the strength of your most powerful naval unit.

Candi
Replaces temple. Provides 1 culture.

Borobudur ship
Replaces Caravel. Has lower strength(16), but available earlier and has +1 movement and +1 sight.

BenZL43 said:

For Indonesia, I will suggest that you rename Indonesia's current UB (Candi) into alun-alun and add Candi as a unique improvement as the 4th UC.

Alun-alun is like a central square / plaza, or open field. Place where people gather to socialize, it is also usually located in front of / near important governmental building. It is more suitable than Candi to replace Garden, and being a tropical country - this is probably our garden. Open field with some palm trees...

Spoiler Some pictures of alun-alun. Warning: large pictures :

Spoiler Pare, Central Sulawesi, Sulawesi Is. :

Spoiler Wonosari, Jogjakarta, Java Is. :

Spoiler Pangkalpinang, Bangka-Belitung, Bangka Is. :

Spoiler Bandung, West Java, Java Is. :

Spoiler Palangkaraya, Central Kalimantan, Borneo Is. :

I think (as Indonesian), it is a more appropriate UC rather than Candi, which a city can have more than 1-2 candis nearby. Borobudur, which is a candi itself, has 7 candi(s) located near it. Full list of Candi can be found here

While alun-alun is usually located in the central of a city, a Candi is usually located not really near from settlements, as Candi - which is actually a Hindu/Buddhist temple - is usually a place where people meditate, in a silence, serene environment. This is a more suitable represented with unique improvement that produce faith.

Please tell me what you think - I could rewrite my proposal if you don't like it

Click to expand...

While I agree that Candi would be better suited as an unique improvement, I would add a unique unit instead of another garden replacement UB to Indonesia.
Probably some kind of a ship unique ship unit.
So, in order:
UU1 - Kris swordsman
UI - Candi
UU2 - unique ship
UB - Wayang

@SnowyNix
I already have a UB for Australia, but that mod is incompatible right now. It doesn't seem to like new BuildingClass-es.

@ BenZL43
You make a good case, but I'm not fond of changing the vanilla UCs, and custom UIs are very difficult. However, if you make it then I can incorporate it.

@Nathan
Yeah, the Borobudur ship is what I'm planning on for Indonesia. Just need a model, really.

Mike, the Mandir isn't working with India. I don't like the Festival, but I don't want India to have only two UCs.

Borobudur Ship is also a good alternative. I will suggest Kapal Jung (the link is in Wiki ID) for the name instead of Borobudur ship. 'Borobudur ship' is a modern name while 'Jung' is recorded in stone inscription back to 9th century.

BenZL43 said:

Borobudur Ship is also a good alternative. I will suggest Kapal Jung (the link is in Wiki ID) for the name instead of Borobudur ship. 'Borobudur ship' is a modern name while 'Jung' is recorded in stone inscription back to 9th century.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The Junk ship should definitely go to China. Various types of it were used far more extensively there.
Kapal Jung is just Junk Ship in Indonesian language AFAIK.

I would suggest to use Padewakang instead.
Just check this article: http://www.forumms.com/traditional_boats.htm
"Indonesia’s indigenous type of rigging is the layar (‘sail&#8217 tanjaq. It’s perhaps oldest representations are seen in several carvings on the walls of the famous 9th century temple of Borobudur, and Chinese, Arab and European sources since the earliest times of foreign contact speak of the peculiar rectangular tanjaq as the typical sails of the ‘Islands Below the Wind’."
"The best-known type of vessel rigged with tanjaq was the South-Sulawesian padewakang, widely employed for far-distance trading and fishing until the early days of the 20th century. Padewakang were the biggest craft of the trading and war fleets of the famed South-Sulawesian kingdoms, used by Mandar, Makassar and Bugis traders and warriors for hundreds of years in their plying the seas between western Newguinea, the southern parts of the Philippines, and the Malayan peninsula."

I would argue that this is perfectly fitting as a unique naval unit for Indonesia.

SnowyNix said:

Mike, the Mandir isn't working with India. I don't like the Festival, but I don't want India to have only two UCs.

Click to expand...

I also don't like festival, I would add Sepoy as another UU instead
Also something like Harappan Reservoir (Aqueduct replacement), to represent to ancient roots of civilization in the Indus valley

I will consider replacing the Festival with the Sepoy. The Mandir SHOULD be working as an alternative. It works for me.

Also, I don't think Aqueduct replacements work (they aren't granted with Tradition finisher like they should). Same thing with Courthouse replacements: none allowed. As far as I know.

The Portuguese unique could be Cacadores (Rifleman replacement)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caçadores

I like that idea.

I've made a lot of progress in the mod, but I'm somewhat stuck with a few. Namely, I'm having trouble conceiving of a UB for the Shoshone, Sweden, the Zulus, the Inca, the Iroquois, Venice, and Songhai. I'm also looking for a UU for Arabia, and something good for the Ottomans.

Alright, some further suggestions:

Iroquios and Shoshone:
You can add the Totem Pole (Monument replacement) to one of the indian tribes.
Also the Tipi as an UI, there is even graphic for it in one of the scenarios (altough Tipi would be way more fitting to the Sioux, Shoshone used Wigwams AFAIK, but maybe Tipis are also good enough.)

Inca UB: Tambo, definitely. Some sort of post office and/or tavern type building along the Inca road system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambo_(Incan_structure)

Venice: CBP use Doge's Palace, a unique Palace replacement as an UB for Venice. I kinda like that idea, as Venice is close to a One City Challenge after all.

Sweden: CBP use Skola for them (Public School replacement). Some other worthy UB ideas:
Trading Post/Longphort (Caravansary/Lighthouse), Soldattorp (Barracks/Military Academy)
IMO the best is the Trading Post (it can be represented as an UI too), as early Swedish vikings were closer to traders, than their Danish counterparts. They traded all along to Eastern European rivers, down to the Black Sea, made it into the Byzantine court as Varangian mercenaries, and later establised the Kievan Rus.
/The way I see it, and would represent them where the Scandinavians are not a single civ: Danish Vikings - raids, conquest, Swedish Vikings - trade, mercenaries, Norwegian Vikings - exploration, colonization. But of course everything goes for every group to some extent, this is just the most important aspect of them when going viking/

Songhai: I don't really like the Songhai in civ, the Mali would have been a much better choice.
It would have been much easier to represent them properly as a full civ in the game.
The Sofa and the Mandekalu Cavalry are both Malian units for example.
For the Mali I could give quite a few perfect UUs or UBs, for the Songhai I have no idea at all.
Anyway, if you have no problem adding further Malian uniques for the Songhai, I would choose from the following:
Royal Mint/Treasury (Mint replacement), Gold Panning Site (UI), Farari/Farima (Knight or Great General - they were an elite force of cavalry commanders), Kelekoun (GG), Kelebolo (Archer/Spearmen), or even the Skirmishers from Civ IV (could go as an Archer replacement)

EDIT: Ups, sry for the historic rants in the last two, got a little carried away
EDIT2: My post isn't too eye friendly, so here are the IMO best suggestions again:
Iroquios: Totem Pole or Sacred Pole (Monument)
Shoshone: Tipi (UI)
Inca: Tambo (would probably make it a Caravansary replacement, but would be great as an UI)
Venice: Doge's Palace (Palace)
Sweden: Trading Post (again, Caravansary or UI)
Songhai (which is Mali actually ): Royal Mint (Mint)

EDIT3:
Oops, I just realized the Tipi is already an UI for the Shoshone
I'm not sure how was I able to miss that, sry

Btw, do you plan to add support for more non-Firaxis civs?
As a hungarian, it always bothered me how they handled Austria.
Basing the Hungarian civ on JFD's Hungary (Huszár and Végvár already there as uniques)

My suggestion (fix) for them:
Austria:
Coffee House (Windmill), Landwehr (Rifleman), Dragoon (Cavalry), Concert Hall (Opera House)

Hungary:
Huszár (Lancer), Végvár (Castle)
Fekete Sereg or Black Army (early Musketman): they were highly succesfull arquebusier-type mercenaries under Matthias Corvinus in the 15th century, both at stopping the Ottomans, and conquering most of Austria, Bohemia and Silesia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Matthias_Corvinus_of_Hungary_(1458-1490).png)
Lovasíjász (Horseman replacement): ranged mounted unit, the hungarian raids were highly successful and feared through most of Europe in the 9-10th century. There was even a prayer in western Europe from this period: "Sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine" ("Lord save us from the arrows of Hungarians")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_invasions_of_Europe

Oh and I forgot Arabia and the Ottomans:
Arabia:
Ansar Warrior, the best option IMO for an UU, they should definitely be mounted, Horseman probably: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_(military)
Ghazi, religious islamic warriors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_(warrior)
Mujahid, though they are more connected to islam than to Arabia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
Beduin Camp: UI, buildable on desert and especially on oasis tiles. Would be great, very unique and flavorful, but I guess art is the problem for this one. As for most UIs.

Ottomans:
Siege Workshop: Arsenal replacement
Bombard or Great Bombard: Cannon replacement
Timar: UI. A timar was land granted by the Ottoman sultans between the fourteenth and sixteenth centuries, with a tax revenue annual value of less than 20 000 akçes. The revenues produced from land acted as compensation for military service. A Timar holder was known as a Timariot.

EDIT:
Oh, and also for Brazil: Bandeirantes UU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandeirantes
Carthage: Numidian Cavalry. Or Sacred Band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Carthage. Both are great options
Ethiopia: Oromo Warrior (Musketman)

AbsintheRed said:

I disagree. The Junk ship should definitely go to China. Various types of it were used far more extensively there.
Kapal Jung is just Junk Ship in Indonesian language AFAIK.

I would suggest to use Padewakang instead.
Just check this article: http://www.forumms.com/traditional_boats.htm
"Indonesia’s indigenous type of rigging is the layar (‘sail&#8217 tanjaq. It’s perhaps oldest representations are seen in several carvings on the walls of the famous 9th century temple of Borobudur, and Chinese, Arab and European sources since the earliest times of foreign contact speak of the peculiar rectangular tanjaq as the typical sails of the ‘Islands Below the Wind’."
"The best-known type of vessel rigged with tanjaq was the South-Sulawesian padewakang, widely employed for far-distance trading and fishing until the early days of the 20th century. Padewakang were the biggest craft of the trading and war fleets of the famed South-Sulawesian kingdoms, used by Mandar, Makassar and Bugis traders and warriors for hundreds of years in their plying the seas between western Newguinea, the southern parts of the Philippines, and the Malayan peninsula."

I would argue that this is perfectly fitting as a unique naval unit for Indonesia.

Click to expand...

The term "Junk" comes from Portuguese's junco which comes from Javanese's Jung or Jong. Chinese call it either 船 (chuan) or 舟 (zhou) - not anything related to Jung at all. Borobudur ship is classified as Junk Ship afaik.

Never heard of Padewakang before, but I know that the Buginese people of south Sulawesi are excellent seafarers. Their most famous ship is Phinisi, which is slightly bigger and newer than Padewakang. I guess Padewakang is also a good name~~

AbsintheRed said:

Oh and I forgot Arabia and the Ottomans:
Arabia:
Ansar Warrior, the best option IMO for an UU, they should definitely be mounted, Horseman probably: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_(military)
Ghazi, religious islamic warriors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazi_(warrior)
Mujahid, though they are more connected to islam than to Arabia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen
Beduin Camp: UI, buildable on desert and especially on oasis tiles. Would be great, very unique and flavorful, but I guess art is the problem for this one. As for most UIs.

Ottomans:
Siege Workshop: Arsenal replacement
Bombard or Great Bombard: Cannon replacement
Timar: UI. A timar was land granted by the Ottoman sultans between the fourteenth and sixteenth centuries, with a tax revenue annual value of less than 20 000 akçes. The revenues produced from land acted as compensation for military service. A Timar holder was known as a Timariot.

EDIT:
Oh, and also for Brazil: Bandeirantes UU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandeirantes
Carthage: Numidian Cavalry. Or Sacred Band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Carthage. Both are great options
Ethiopia: Oromo Warrior (Musketman)

Click to expand...

I vote Numidian cavalry for Carthage. This is of course totally unrelated to my needing the graphics converted from civ IV for my mod. Totally unrelated.

BenZL43 said:

The term "Junk" comes from Portuguese's junco which comes from Javanese's Jung or Jong. Chinese call it either 船 (chuan) or 舟 (zhou) - not anything related to Jung at all. Borobudur ship is classified as Junk Ship afaik.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the origin of the name Junk there, the name itself might come from an Indonesian term.
Nevertheless, it's mainly a Chinese type of ship (what we most commonly know as Junk Ship today), and I would give the Junk Ship as a UU for China, without any doubts.

Never heard of Padewakang before, but I know that the Buginese people of south Sulawesi are excellent seafarers. Their most famous ship is Phinisi, which is slightly bigger and newer than Padewakang. I guess Padewakang is also a good name~~

Click to expand...

Exactly the same for me, but the other way around
I guess Phinisi is also a good name.

I would argue for the Padewakang with it's uniqueness though.
Phinisi design is closely based on Dutch ships as I read it just now.
I really like that "Indonesia’s indigenous type of rigging is the layar (‘sail&#8217 tanjaq." part in the Padewakang.

Having said that, I get your point of the current Indonesian civ being mostly Javanese.
For me it's even better if we choose the next unique for someplace else from Indonesia, but I can understand if someone would prefer to keep them strictly Javanese

DoctorMcGann said:

I vote Numidian cavalry for Carthage. This is of course totally unrelated to my needing the graphics converted from civ IV for my mod. Totally unrelated.

Click to expand...

As I think both are very good choices, this is as good reason as anything else