CFC TG1: Calling All Settler, Chieftain, and Warlord Players

Agreed, its probably best to take Siam's capital first. So go for another horse in Rome then before finishing the monument. I liked the thought of finishing that so that when Antium's horse is done, it could also build a monument using Rome's UA, but in the end winning the war is more important

Perhaps the warriors can help with the second city if we leave them as garrisons for now.

About the trade route: its 1g base + 1.25g per citizen (in the connected city). Antium will grow to size 3 in 3 turns (5 if you work a forest), so the route will be 4.75g and almost bring in its maintainance.

As for spending cash, these were just suggestions...we can also keep saving. But I'd also like a worker, with four cities it'll be helpful.

I would agree on keeping the warriors at home just in case, and finishing the trade route seems to me to be the first thing on the to-do list for the worker. And another worker sure wouldn't hurt.

For now, you seem to be making plans, based only on the locations of siam's cities, without any real knowledge of it's army. Several turns from attacking (8-10) you should use your warriors and first horsemen('s) to do a bit of scouting.
About the second city. It will be easy to take (just founded, strength 6), but may prove harder to defend (if taken before the capital): you'll attack it from the east but to defend it from the siamese, you'll need to cross the river, which'll require a full turn...
Still, if siam's army proves to be not too large, I'd take that second city first, and do it at the moment you have 2 horsemen. Then slaughter most of siam's army, then take the capital at the moment you have 3 horsemen. That's a risk, but depending on the size of siam's army it may be possible, and it's the quickest way.

Turn 50


Someone built the Great Library. As a builder, I am upset.


Re-assigned a citizen from grassland to forest in Antium. Growth in 5 turns instead of 4. Horseman changes from 11 turns to 9 turns.


Turn 51


A barb Spearman shows up at Antium!



I bombard the Spearman and then attack the Spearman. Success! One dead barb Spearman. I did not move the Great General first. It is my understanding that the General would only have helped the Warrior in Antium if they had started the turn within two tiles of each other.

Finish road on this tile and move on to the hill to complete the trade route. Started research on Mining. Finish in 4 turns.



Turn 52

Warrior and General huddle in Antium. Road/route in 4 turns. Exploring around Rio de Janeiro.

Turn 53

Exploring.

Turn 54

Someone built the Great Lighthouse. As a builder, I am offended yet again.

Exploring around Bucharest. I hope you people don't mind trespassing and waiting for the anger points to fade.

Horseman finishes in Rome, move Horseman towards Antium. Start Horseman in Rome.

Turn 55

Antium grows to 3. We are unhappy! What effects does this have? Moved the third citizen from grassland to forest. This does not change the number of turns for the Horseman (4) but does trade .25 food being pumped into an unhappy empire for 1 production.

Finished Mining. Started masonry, 6 turns.

I am going rogue. I figure we don't need another Spearman showing up if we have to use the Warrior in Antium for our invasion. (By the way, thanks to people for insisting on a garrison in Antium!) The Horseman and the General go to pay a visit on the Barbs. It is a Warrior encamped, not another Spearman, so this is overkill, but that is alright with me.



Turn 56

Horseman takes out barb Warrior in one hit. We get Gold. Horseman and General on way back to Antium. Road finishes. Move worker to Wine. Wine in 5 turns.



Turn 57

Siam has entered the Classical age. I think that accelerates our invasion schedule. Sidon is asking for help with a Barb camp. Do we chase that down with our Horseman? Move Horseman and General to Antium territory so Horseman can take a turn to heal in friendly territory.



Turn 58

Finished trespassing in Bucharest. It will take them 9 turns to get over it.

Horseman is healing in Antium territory. The General is moving out to get a head start on the faster moving Horseman. We are going to move towards Sidon next turn. If the group doesn't agree, the troops can be pulled back.

Turn 59

Horseman and General are now at Rome headed towards Sidon. Recall them if you want. Antium finishes a Horseman. Started another, 13 turns. Rome has a Horseman in 6 turns.

I find the issue with Sidon's request to be interesting. We could possible take advantage of the situation. If we do go after Sidon's barb camp, we can have the whole crew of Horses catch up with them and attack Si Satchanalai from the flat plains North.

Turn 60

Wine in 1 turn. Be sure to check the citizen assignment in Antium when we get our happiness back. I'd forget to.



Here's the save file.

View attachment TG1 Augustus Caesar_0060 BC-1600.Civ5Save

I'm back, but I haven't had the chance to look at the save yet. I'll do so later on tonight. Technically two horses are enough, but I prefer three. A fourth could be nice just in case we have some bad luck. One thing of note, is its best to save promotions. I've run into situations where I find one of my units red-lined, so the insta-heal can be very helpful. I hate using promotions for that, but sometimes that's the best option.

Just from looking at the screenshots, I'd say we attack from the southwest. As others have mentioned, I prefer attacking from a position that the city can't bombard my units.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe being unahappy causes negative modifiers to production and other stuff. Being at -10 is not something to reach. I'm not positive though, so hopefully someone else will come along and state the correct answer.

I'll look at the save later tonight and play up to the war. I want you all to experience and learn from this game, so I'll play up to the war and then let Centerfinger (I believe he's after me), start the invasion.

lurker's comment:
Zero or more happiness is normal. (Well, depending upon playstyle...)

1 through 9 unhappy means that your cities grow slower. Your surplus food in each city is multiplied by 1/4, so cities need four times longer to grow. Also, your golden age bucket diminishes.

10 or more is (usually) critically bad. Your cities don't produce any surplus food (and therefore don't grow at all). You cannot settle settlers. You cannot build settlers, and any cities that were part-finished building settlers must choose new build orders. Also, your army suffers a 33% combat penalty. Finally all production rates are halved.

Fighting while unhappy is fine. Some people feel that running your empire in a permanent state of unhappy is fine ... indeed they feel that positive happiness is a sign you're not growing your population fast enough.

Under extreme circumstances, it is possible to thrive for an extended time while angry. This can occur in some domination games where your tech lead and/or sheer mass of troops is enough that a 33% penalty is bearable. You have enough cash that you can buy stuff, so the half production rate doesn't matter. Population growth is achieved purely via conquest.

Personally, I like to keep as far positive as possible until I get the first happiness-golden-age. The second one is nice, but I rarely get it - I'm one of those who run at slightly negative happiness for much of the game.

Oh, and negative happiness does not cause your happiness bucket to ever drop below zero. (ie. your next golden age will never be "-223/1500".)

Creepy Old Man said:

lurker's comment: ...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help!

I'm back too, sorry I usually am not that forum active during the weekends. I'll take a peak at the save tonight as well. I need to get back into Civ5 as I have been playing 4 for the last week.

Centerfinger said:

I'm back too, sorry I usually am not that forum active during the weekends. I'll take a peak at the save tonight as well. I need to get back into Civ5 as I have been playing 4 for the last week.

Click to expand...

No problem. I spend a lot of time with family on the weekend, so typically I'm not as active on the weekends either. I'm getting ready to play my turnset, though I intend to only play up to the invasion, but won't start it.

Turn 60, 1600 BC: I start moving our troops into position. The two horsemen will move to the southwest of our target and our scout will move into position to put both cities into view, so we can watch them prior to our attack. Our more experienced warrior will move closer to our target just before the attack. The warriors job will be to deal with any units that our sent at us, while the horsemen will target their attacks against the cities.

Turn 61, 1560 BC: The worker completes the improvement on the wine, which brings our happiness up to 4. I'm a bit hesitant to increase our happiness too much, as I'd prefer not to reach our first golden age too early. So instead I decide to farm the FP. I'd rather hold off and improve the sugar and/or silver, since they're much more valuable tiles.

Masonry is complete and I hesitate over which tech to start on next. I recall some argued for Construction for the collisuems, but in all honesty, we're not going to need them for quite a while. After conquering Siam, we'll have another +15 to connect and the two cities have a combined pop of 9, which would put us as +10, not counting the from being puppeted. I'm not sure what the negative modifier is either, unfortunately. I wish I knew the unhappiness modifiers for puppet cities. Anyway, for now I chose Writing, as the library will be very beneficial to us. We should gain enough from our invasion to allow us to purchase a library in Rome.

Turn 63, 1480 BC: It looks like Siam has chariot archers, so our warrior will have something to do. Chariot archers are nice for their range attack, but they suck at defending themselves

It also appears that Germany and Siam have an OB agreement. Odd, since wasn't it Germany who asked us to dow on Siam?

Turn 65, 1400 BC: Rome completes the horsemen and goes back to working on the monument. The Collosus has been built in a faraway land.

Turn 70, 1200 BC: We could have started the war two turns ago, but I had one horsemen who wasn't close enough, so I held off until he was in place. Here's the current view of the battlefield.





Here's the 1200 BC save.

Current Roster:

• Methos - Just Played
• Centerfinger - Up!
• Aldor - On Deck
• Sindri Pink
• shanodin
• eris

@Centerfinger: Before you play, let's discuss battle plans. There's several things we need to consider before attacking, especially since we want to destroy Siam as quickly as we can and not lose any units. I hope you don't mind CF, just want to make sure we're good and ready before kicking this war off.

So if everyone can discuss how they would do the attack, that would be great. All units currently have full movement, so state what unit you would move first and where, for each unit you would use. I'll post the battle plan I would use in about 2.5 to 3 hours.

numbering the horses 1 through 3 from north to south.

Horse 1: SE, attack city, W, W to get out of range of city.
Horse 2: Attack E to remove Warrior and its Zone of Control, W, W to get out of range of city. (If we attack the city, the Warrior ZOC will prevent us from getting out of range.)
Horse 3: Attacking Horse Chariot leaves us unable to get out of range of City. So, attack SE to keep that Warrior out of the battle, then W to get out of range of Horse Chariot.

I am worried for the Warrior. I think it touches too many other Warriors and City ranges. I think it is doomed. The best I can find for it is Attack Horse Chariot two tiles NE to keep Horse Archer from entering the battle for the Capitol.

Move General W to join the two horses that will be huddled together.

That leave us with one attack on the city, three enemy units dead (probably), the horses in a safe place unless that one Horse Archer comes looking for us (which is it will regret), and a Roman Warrior praying to Mars. There is also a Scout in the neighborhood. I have no idea if it can be of any use other than to maybe die gallantly distracting someone from the real invasion force. Perhaps it can serve as a temporary garrison for the ex-capitol of Siam, especially if we lose that Warrior.

Heal horses a turn if you can. They won't be in a position to swoop in and out of range again. I have no idea about the fate of that Warrior.

Deal with any units that come our way. Attack the City as often as possible while doing so.

One possibility is to wait one more turn and see where the units move. We could get lucky and have several move out of the way. The warrior that's already outside of the borders may continue further away from Siam. In fact, the turn before that warrior wasn't in such a bind.

I'm in the process of getting ready for work, so I'll post what I'd do tonight after work. Hopefully more of our players come along and post their thoughts.

lurker's comment:

If you wait a turn, they'll probably give you the "Oh noes, what are you doing on our border" message, though, and you don't want that.

It really depends honestly on the city attack values. If you can take it in two turns (I about 5 hp per attack), I'd say kill the warrior on the farm with the southermost horse and retreat it to it's original hex, attack the city with the other horses, ignore the rest. Otherwise, kill the warrior on the farm, the other warrior southwest, and the chariot. Just make sure the general end up on a horse that's not in range of a warrior.

We've already received the border message.

lurker's comment:

Hrm. Personally, I'd go for it this turn anyways. Warrior rushing works, and I have taken out cities with one or two CCs with no general, so a great general and 3 horseman should do it easily.

Methos said:

We've already received the border message.

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What did you answer? Btw., do you prefer to declare war via diplo menu, or do you just attack? Is it better to do it one way or the other?

Anyway, I'd start with horse 2: attack the warrior to the east. That ZoC must be removed immediately, then move NW-W-SW onto the forest.

Then, horse 1 can freely attack the city, then move W-NW or W-W out of range.

Horse 3 can also attack the city. Then it could move to where horse 2 stands now (don't think it has more movement left).

Move the GG out of harms way after that.

The warrior should attack the chariot NE, should be able to kill it easily. That will also get it out of range of all those other warriors (though it will still be in fire range of Siam's second city).

I'd move the scout S onto the forest. He might provoke some counterattacks, which he should survive standing in the forest.

Well, good luck Centerfinger! Lets start the rumble

Aldor said:

What did you answer? Btw., do you prefer to declare war via diplo menu, or do you just attack? Is it better to do it one way or the other?

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I lied in my reply. What's the option say, we're just exploring, or something like that. You never dow when you get the border message, since then your enemy now has the option to attack you.

I've always done my dow'ing by the diplomacy menu.

Methos said:

I lied in my reply. What's the option say, we're just exploring, or something like that. You never dow when you get the border message, since then your enemy now has the option to attack you.

I've always done my dow'ing by the diplomacy menu.

Click to expand...

lurker's comment:
I heard that lying has big diplomatic repercussions with the other AIs if you really lie and attack a few turns later. I've had several civs turn hostile on me immediately after I lied and DW a turn later. So I usually tell the truth now.

No way to verify without digging into the XML though, I suppose.

Luck of the draw that I get to take down Sukhotai.

I agree to much of what slowpoke said. Wack the warrior with the southern most horse and retreat back to same tile to capture the defensive position from the hills. I have a feeling the their warrior south will attack so we want to give it the best defensive position.

The horse with the general should hit the city from the horse resource tile and the northern most horse attack from the other open tile.

Leave our warrior fortified to handle an oncoming attack.

Aldor's suggestion of moving the scout to the forest for a defensive position is a pretty good idea too.

I should only take one more horse attack to bring down the city. Depending on Siam's turn, the Second round should be:

Horseman with general finish the city, southern most horse take out the chariot archer and northern most horse take out 1 of the 2 warriors.

From Metho's prior tips all level gains should be saved. After puppeting the city all units should heal up and defend against and exterminate remaining enemy units, before positioning for the attack on the next city. The next city may be a bit more difficult because of the surrounding terrain, but it appears that hitting him from the south is the best bet. Whomever's turn is after mine will get the satisfaction of whipping out Siam.

Other than the war, I may have missed it, but what are the teching goals. I see bronze will be done so what is next after that.

iamflatline said:

lurker's comment:
I heard that lying has big diplomatic repercussions with the other AIs if you really lie and attack a few turns later. I've had several civs turn hostile on me immediately after I lied and DW a turn later. So I usually tell the truth now.

No way to verify without digging into the XML though, I suppose.

Click to expand...

I have heard that as well. I don't think it will pose to much of a problem since we are planning on taking out both neighboring civs.