Wolfshade
Little Winger
Anthony, I want to say THANK YOU! once again! I had a great weekend
mostly because I played a Worldwide Prestige! I spent almost a day to play to the end of the game and I achieved cultural victory near the turn 480 (year 192x).
My previous post brought more negative info and I feel a need to make this one more positive.
Minor issues to fix:
- civilopedia icons for Lusitan Spearman replaced with icons of Slavonic Spearman;
- Letters Of Marque improvement needs Must be near water + Replaces all flag checked flags;
- Radio Station seems too cheap cheaper than any other building. Intentionally?
Performance issue:
Game worked slow enough on my PC starting from the 2/3 of era 2 Core i7 2.8 GHz + 4 GB RAM. I see a reason of slow working playing Napoleonic Wars Global, but its interesting to me why it happened with your mod on a normal map. It didnt happen with my own mod as well, even when I played it during testing on the huge map.
Fundamentals seems to fix:
I do not know exactly was it made intentionally, but some wonders dont require pre-requisite city improvements for example, a Great Library doesnt require a regular library & a Newton University can be built without any scientific building (I mean university). Also a comment about the virtual pre-requisite should be placed into the Industrial Complex description Complex produces an Artilleryman and if theres no barracks in the city, this wonder becomes useless its impossible to upgrade an autoproduced unit (Artilleryman) or to move a unit into the city with barracks. I know there cannot be 2 improvements as pre-req, so itll be good to place a reminder about barracks to the civpedia description, at least.
So, as I said, possibly such things were done intentionally and thats I placed a word seems into the section title.
A personal observation about thousands of units:
Developing my own mod, I initially tried to put maximal amount of units in it. So I made tribal warriors-barbarians from Sandris for pre-historic times (era 1), I inserted ancient units for ancient times (era 1 again). And, you know, I found I can usually use only one kind of units per era. What I mean: lets look at Medieval era there player can find Dark Ages units + High/Late Medieval units (thats what I meant saying kinds of units). But since player should produce & gather military forces for war, theres no time to use DA and H/LM units theres a time to use DA or H/LM only (OK, with some small cross-additions). So modder can spend hours & days balancing unit lines power, and player wont use a half of it. This fact is a hurt for modder and saying this I want to notify you for your future civ3-projects and Ares who said he has 1500+ units in his mod. Almost the same thing was done in the original game strong gun-powder units appear at the end of the era 2 beginning of era 3, when player got the flavor of fighting with medieval knights from the beginning of era 2. Im almost sure, this fact was confirmed by play-testing.
So, summarizing one kind of units per era is completely enough, but more can be available to choose between them, though.
Graphics features:
Units update feature it didnt seem to me a good idea to update a Republicano Tank on changing era 3 to era 4 it was a Panzer IV (?, IIRC) in era 3 and became a Leopard (?) with the same stats on changing eras. This feature depends on the players taste and it doesnt go for me, sorry. Though, of course, I do support idea to update workers gfx.
Gameplay:
Once more many words, this time more constructive since I did feel a flavor and I know what can be done alternatively.
Naval barbarians I met them, they do exist, but they seem too weak to bring problems. If I can give an advice, I would make them stronger. Not to be a man of words in my own mod I use animals made by Tom as ground barbarians, and I use a Thunderstorm made by Tom as a naval barbarian. I made it as powerful as sails ships and the result of battle between Storm & galleon is unpredictable, but galleon has good chances to survive while the ancient galley has no chances, so there cannot be a luck to make circumnavigation using the ancient galley.
Artillery bombarded my ships and killed 2 ships of the line, I, damn, almost cried with the bloody tears! Didnt see it was used on the ground I had a war with Poles and they brought 2 cannons, but used them for the regular attack. So it happens, but seems too rare. Its not your flaw, its just an AI design, we all know it.
Mercenaries they, damn, can attack cities until the last defender. When the war is declared only. Its a game design flaw, not yours. It seems laughable to me units with the hidden nationality with the primal goal to disturb another player by their robbing action and they cannot be used this way. Possibly, it can be hacked out, but Im not sure.
Attributes a thing I criticized a lot in my previous post. OK, at the end of era 2 I got them. I must say, they absolutely cool to have. The only problem I felt no reason & motivation to build them in era 1 and almost all the time of era 2. In era 3 I got their flavor in full, but I had to wait a long time, as you may see. Thats why, I think, there was no 2nd headshot post from Nihtantuel he found this feature attractive, but, possibly, too late and I did the same, you see. And I changed an overall mark I put into my previous post Ill show it at the end of the current one.
And a couple of words of what I expected from buildings-attributes I waited them to play more important role, not to be a sweet addition to the the city progress, but to be a thing which truly specialize a city.
An additional thought about Attributes Ill say in the Thoughts & ideas section of the post a bit later.
Buildings buildings, buildings, buildings, I recall. Yeah, there are a lot of buildings and this thing is one of not so positive. Tons of buildings is not always good. Thats the reason I dislike RaR extended mod, for example there you can build bazaar, toll house, market, bank, central bank, national bank & finally Smiths Trading Company within 2 eras. All these buildings serve 2 main goals to get player money (1) and bring fun (2). (1) works properly (I didnt know where to spend thousands of coins), but (2) becomes a pain what a muthafuking hell it is??? Looking through the list of buildings with the same effect, you see no difference between them. And this list starts to annoy at some moment. So something close I felt about *coal mining, factory, powerplant, hydroplant. 4 buildings serve the same goal (productivity+) inside the short period of time I would prefer the only one with the cumulative effect of all and, possibly, big value in shields. Itll make buildings list more simply & shorter. And more clear. AI will count it too expensive?
Railway Station building a great design, as it should be even IRL. So this one made me excited a lot.
Armies strange, but China did not use its armies against me. They had a wonder autoproduced armies and I destroyed 3 army leaders when conquered a city with it. Simultaneously, Chinese had a number of swordsmen and had no horsemen, so, possibly, absence of fast units became a reason not to create armies?
Enough of analysis. A time for the sentence an overall mark.
4.5 of 5, definitely!
High quality gfx? Yes. +1.
New interesting tech tree, buildings, units? Yes. +1.
Unique ideas & features you never seen before? Yes. +1.
Interesting & fun gameplay? Definitely yes. +1.
New game mechanics? Yes, but could be more, IMHO. +0.5.
So 4.5. Congratulations & THANK YOU, Anthony!!!
CCM mod & Napoleonic Wars Global scenario examples of 5/5, IMHO - just FYI.
Thoughts & ideas:
Here Ill post some thoughts about gameplay improvements I see. Its a suggestions part, whether they worth to be done or not up to you.
Attributes possibly, itd be interesting to play with improvements upkeep cost and raise it. I suspect this thing or a very similar one was done in the 1st release of the mod according to the questions from Tom? Itll force player to build attributes buildings earlier in the game and they will help to stabilize an economical part. So therell be no person to say attributes are useless and player can live w/o them easily. This will bring additional difficulty and interest. And a fun the balance solution can be found!
Progressive buildings line well, in this field I have a theory, not only thoughts. Of course, I could check it and tell concrete facts, but that time I was too tired of modding and I did nothing for a long time. There was no inspiration as well and your mod brought it back.
I already talked about idea of not only progressive unit line, but of a progressive buildings line + city specialization. So I read an intriguing phrase in your post AI never builds them. Could you, please, tell me what kinds of buildings AI definitely builds? I will compare it with my own experience and will tell you what Ive got.
So, a theory. For example, you have a choice: you can build city improvement A or B. A brings you money, B brings productivity. A & B are excluding each other the same to your attributes. A1 has an A as pre-requisite and provides features of A + something new = for example, money + happy face, and replaces A being built. The same B1. Sure, A & B chains cannot be in the city simultaneously so the city specialized in money or productivity only. This brings an additional flavor to the game & makes it more difficult.
There can be more interesting thing what if buildings will depend on the government type? For example, you can build a cathedral under Feudalism - it produces happy faces. But changing to the Theocracy, you can build a monasteries (cathedral as pre-req) & a Crusade great wonder (monastery as pre-req), which supports your army with horse knights with no upkeep payment.
Mercenaries yeah, I got the idea about them. Once I thought about trading workers you can take them from the other civ on the peace treaty. So, possibly, you can trade with a Mercenary civ buying troops? Well, yes, but only 2nd unit from the units_32.pcx can be traded. Oh what a disappointment. So the idea is to create a small non-playable civ with the mutual protection pact (locked alliance) and itll have no possibility to build settlers to expand. Even w/o possibility to build cultural buildings (only productive & financial) so it wont take anybodys city with its cultural influence and cannot be taken, as well, since its a capital. Yes, this civ wont trade you mercenaries, but if you will supply them with resources, theyll bring their units into fight on your side. Dont laugh of me, please I do understand its an approximate imitation, but its better than nothing at all, I suppose. Itll require some additional work from modder, but itll bring a new mechanics to the game and with the proper realization a lot of fun.
Possibly, this idea reminds cities-states from Civ5 (oh, I don't like this game in its current state), but these small civs give you no tasks (only when they ran into the trouble - but to protect them or not is up to you) to complete and just help you. And, of course, no annoying "We are no longer friends, give them something to be closer to each other" - what a shet.
Some additional and possibly useful info:
Currently I design a huge world map 362x362 size - some kind of re-design of the world map by... TETurkhan? It was used for a Napoleonic Wars, WW1 & WW2 Global scenarios. I downloaded all top maps from the database, but the same problem remains in every - a small Europe. I made it 1.5-2 times bigger than on the TETurkhan map and it seems to be pretty well if you choose only major euro civs to play on it. So if there'll be a person who wishes to adapt Worldwide to the world map, I have something to assist with. The only thing I don't know how soon I will complete it (Americas to be done + Africa small adjustment, the rest is done) and I don't want to be forced. So that's all about additional and, possibly, useful info.
So, once again, thank you for the mod, Anthony!
And for any reader. Its definitely worth playing this mod. But, please, dont be too hurry you will have a pleasure, just wait. Dont tell me you tired of waiting its a worst thing ever, I do know, but its worth, I say once again!
My previous post brought more negative info and I feel a need to make this one more positive.
Minor issues to fix:
- civilopedia icons for Lusitan Spearman replaced with icons of Slavonic Spearman;
- Letters Of Marque improvement needs Must be near water + Replaces all flag checked flags;
- Radio Station seems too cheap cheaper than any other building. Intentionally?
Performance issue:
Game worked slow enough on my PC starting from the 2/3 of era 2 Core i7 2.8 GHz + 4 GB RAM. I see a reason of slow working playing Napoleonic Wars Global, but its interesting to me why it happened with your mod on a normal map. It didnt happen with my own mod as well, even when I played it during testing on the huge map.
Fundamentals seems to fix:
I do not know exactly was it made intentionally, but some wonders dont require pre-requisite city improvements for example, a Great Library doesnt require a regular library & a Newton University can be built without any scientific building (I mean university). Also a comment about the virtual pre-requisite should be placed into the Industrial Complex description Complex produces an Artilleryman and if theres no barracks in the city, this wonder becomes useless its impossible to upgrade an autoproduced unit (Artilleryman) or to move a unit into the city with barracks. I know there cannot be 2 improvements as pre-req, so itll be good to place a reminder about barracks to the civpedia description, at least.
So, as I said, possibly such things were done intentionally and thats I placed a word seems into the section title.
A personal observation about thousands of units:
Developing my own mod, I initially tried to put maximal amount of units in it. So I made tribal warriors-barbarians from Sandris for pre-historic times (era 1), I inserted ancient units for ancient times (era 1 again). And, you know, I found I can usually use only one kind of units per era. What I mean: lets look at Medieval era there player can find Dark Ages units + High/Late Medieval units (thats what I meant saying kinds of units). But since player should produce & gather military forces for war, theres no time to use DA and H/LM units theres a time to use DA or H/LM only (OK, with some small cross-additions). So modder can spend hours & days balancing unit lines power, and player wont use a half of it. This fact is a hurt for modder and saying this I want to notify you for your future civ3-projects and Ares who said he has 1500+ units in his mod. Almost the same thing was done in the original game strong gun-powder units appear at the end of the era 2 beginning of era 3, when player got the flavor of fighting with medieval knights from the beginning of era 2. Im almost sure, this fact was confirmed by play-testing.
So, summarizing one kind of units per era is completely enough, but more can be available to choose between them, though.
Graphics features:
Units update feature it didnt seem to me a good idea to update a Republicano Tank on changing era 3 to era 4 it was a Panzer IV (?, IIRC) in era 3 and became a Leopard (?) with the same stats on changing eras. This feature depends on the players taste and it doesnt go for me, sorry. Though, of course, I do support idea to update workers gfx.
Gameplay:
Once more many words, this time more constructive since I did feel a flavor and I know what can be done alternatively.
Naval barbarians I met them, they do exist, but they seem too weak to bring problems. If I can give an advice, I would make them stronger. Not to be a man of words in my own mod I use animals made by Tom as ground barbarians, and I use a Thunderstorm made by Tom as a naval barbarian. I made it as powerful as sails ships and the result of battle between Storm & galleon is unpredictable, but galleon has good chances to survive while the ancient galley has no chances, so there cannot be a luck to make circumnavigation using the ancient galley.
Artillery bombarded my ships and killed 2 ships of the line, I, damn, almost cried with the bloody tears! Didnt see it was used on the ground I had a war with Poles and they brought 2 cannons, but used them for the regular attack. So it happens, but seems too rare. Its not your flaw, its just an AI design, we all know it.
Mercenaries they, damn, can attack cities until the last defender. When the war is declared only. Its a game design flaw, not yours. It seems laughable to me units with the hidden nationality with the primal goal to disturb another player by their robbing action and they cannot be used this way. Possibly, it can be hacked out, but Im not sure.
Attributes a thing I criticized a lot in my previous post. OK, at the end of era 2 I got them. I must say, they absolutely cool to have. The only problem I felt no reason & motivation to build them in era 1 and almost all the time of era 2. In era 3 I got their flavor in full, but I had to wait a long time, as you may see. Thats why, I think, there was no 2nd headshot post from Nihtantuel he found this feature attractive, but, possibly, too late and I did the same, you see. And I changed an overall mark I put into my previous post Ill show it at the end of the current one.
And a couple of words of what I expected from buildings-attributes I waited them to play more important role, not to be a sweet addition to the the city progress, but to be a thing which truly specialize a city.
An additional thought about Attributes Ill say in the Thoughts & ideas section of the post a bit later.
Buildings buildings, buildings, buildings, I recall. Yeah, there are a lot of buildings and this thing is one of not so positive. Tons of buildings is not always good. Thats the reason I dislike RaR extended mod, for example there you can build bazaar, toll house, market, bank, central bank, national bank & finally Smiths Trading Company within 2 eras. All these buildings serve 2 main goals to get player money (1) and bring fun (2). (1) works properly (I didnt know where to spend thousands of coins), but (2) becomes a pain what a muthafuking hell it is??? Looking through the list of buildings with the same effect, you see no difference between them. And this list starts to annoy at some moment. So something close I felt about *coal mining, factory, powerplant, hydroplant. 4 buildings serve the same goal (productivity+) inside the short period of time I would prefer the only one with the cumulative effect of all and, possibly, big value in shields. Itll make buildings list more simply & shorter. And more clear. AI will count it too expensive?
Railway Station building a great design, as it should be even IRL. So this one made me excited a lot.
Armies strange, but China did not use its armies against me. They had a wonder autoproduced armies and I destroyed 3 army leaders when conquered a city with it. Simultaneously, Chinese had a number of swordsmen and had no horsemen, so, possibly, absence of fast units became a reason not to create armies?
Enough of analysis. A time for the sentence an overall mark.
4.5 of 5, definitely!
High quality gfx? Yes. +1.
New interesting tech tree, buildings, units? Yes. +1.
Unique ideas & features you never seen before? Yes. +1.
Interesting & fun gameplay? Definitely yes. +1.
New game mechanics? Yes, but could be more, IMHO. +0.5.
So 4.5. Congratulations & THANK YOU, Anthony!!!
CCM mod & Napoleonic Wars Global scenario examples of 5/5, IMHO - just FYI.
Thoughts & ideas:
Here Ill post some thoughts about gameplay improvements I see. Its a suggestions part, whether they worth to be done or not up to you.
Attributes possibly, itd be interesting to play with improvements upkeep cost and raise it. I suspect this thing or a very similar one was done in the 1st release of the mod according to the questions from Tom? Itll force player to build attributes buildings earlier in the game and they will help to stabilize an economical part. So therell be no person to say attributes are useless and player can live w/o them easily. This will bring additional difficulty and interest. And a fun the balance solution can be found!
Progressive buildings line well, in this field I have a theory, not only thoughts. Of course, I could check it and tell concrete facts, but that time I was too tired of modding and I did nothing for a long time. There was no inspiration as well and your mod brought it back.
I already talked about idea of not only progressive unit line, but of a progressive buildings line + city specialization. So I read an intriguing phrase in your post AI never builds them. Could you, please, tell me what kinds of buildings AI definitely builds? I will compare it with my own experience and will tell you what Ive got.
So, a theory. For example, you have a choice: you can build city improvement A or B. A brings you money, B brings productivity. A & B are excluding each other the same to your attributes. A1 has an A as pre-requisite and provides features of A + something new = for example, money + happy face, and replaces A being built. The same B1. Sure, A & B chains cannot be in the city simultaneously so the city specialized in money or productivity only. This brings an additional flavor to the game & makes it more difficult.
There can be more interesting thing what if buildings will depend on the government type? For example, you can build a cathedral under Feudalism - it produces happy faces. But changing to the Theocracy, you can build a monasteries (cathedral as pre-req) & a Crusade great wonder (monastery as pre-req), which supports your army with horse knights with no upkeep payment.
Mercenaries yeah, I got the idea about them. Once I thought about trading workers you can take them from the other civ on the peace treaty. So, possibly, you can trade with a Mercenary civ buying troops? Well, yes, but only 2nd unit from the units_32.pcx can be traded. Oh what a disappointment. So the idea is to create a small non-playable civ with the mutual protection pact (locked alliance) and itll have no possibility to build settlers to expand. Even w/o possibility to build cultural buildings (only productive & financial) so it wont take anybodys city with its cultural influence and cannot be taken, as well, since its a capital. Yes, this civ wont trade you mercenaries, but if you will supply them with resources, theyll bring their units into fight on your side. Dont laugh of me, please I do understand its an approximate imitation, but its better than nothing at all, I suppose. Itll require some additional work from modder, but itll bring a new mechanics to the game and with the proper realization a lot of fun.
Possibly, this idea reminds cities-states from Civ5 (oh, I don't like this game in its current state), but these small civs give you no tasks (only when they ran into the trouble - but to protect them or not is up to you) to complete and just help you. And, of course, no annoying "We are no longer friends, give them something to be closer to each other" - what a shet.
Some additional and possibly useful info:
Currently I design a huge world map 362x362 size - some kind of re-design of the world map by... TETurkhan? It was used for a Napoleonic Wars, WW1 & WW2 Global scenarios. I downloaded all top maps from the database, but the same problem remains in every - a small Europe. I made it 1.5-2 times bigger than on the TETurkhan map and it seems to be pretty well if you choose only major euro civs to play on it. So if there'll be a person who wishes to adapt Worldwide to the world map, I have something to assist with. The only thing I don't know how soon I will complete it (Americas to be done + Africa small adjustment, the rest is done) and I don't want to be forced. So that's all about additional and, possibly, useful info.
So, once again, thank you for the mod, Anthony!
And for any reader. Its definitely worth playing this mod. But, please, dont be too hurry you will have a pleasure, just wait. Dont tell me you tired of waiting its a worst thing ever, I do know, but its worth, I say once again!