Our World: Civilizations of the Modern Age Design Discussion

Hamm: This is really the issue. 2 aspects of Scape's design are capital-centric, the UA and the UB. I think we should sacrifice the percentage bonus applying to the capital part of the UA in favor of the Natural Gas element. The very, very game-shaping UB effect will still be in place, allowing a capital focus.

In my eyes, it's either that or Natural Gas becomes a decision. From the get-go, I have designed these civs with a strong focus on decisions being a part of the design.

Using a Sportsman as an East German UU is a very, very dicey prospect. They were basically used as experiments and pumped full of drugs by an uncaring state motivated only by the prospect of glory on the world stage. Here's a design I came up with for East Germany a while back:-

East Germany (Erich Honecker)
Start Bias: Hills
Capital: East Berlin
UA: Arbeit Fur Alle
+1% Building Production for each Level 1 Ideological Tenet, +2% for each Level 2 Tenet, and +5% for each Level 3 Tenet. Cities generate +10% additional Science per turn when garrisoned with a Worker.
UU: Landstreitkrafte (replaces Infantry)
While weaker than the Infantry it replaces (60 vs. 70), the Landstreitkrafte is much faster, with 3 base Movement points and an additional +1 Movement Promotion, as well as Drill I. It also has the unique promotion "Kasernierte Volkspolizei", allowing it to provide a +5% Science bonus when garrisoned in a City for each Military and Counter-Espionage Building in that City. Upgrades as normal.
UB: Kombinat (replaces Factory)
Standard Factory benefits, though it requires Iron rather than Coal. Additionally, grants a +5% Science bonus for every 10 Production in the City in which it is built, to a maximum of 50%.

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Obvious science/hammers Civ is obvious. I went with Honecker because it rewards being doctrinaire about stuff, which rather accurately reflects his repeals of the liberal reforms tentatively instigated by his predecessor, Walter Ulbricht. Hope that's of use to people. =]

What if Sportsmen Provided a little bit of Influence for every City State when performing their Trade Missions? That'd make them different enough from Great Merchants.

SuperWaffle247 said:

Hamm: This is really the issue. 2 aspects of Scape's design are capital-centric, the UA and the UB. I think we should sacrifice the percentage bonus applying to the capital part of the UA in favor of the Natural Gas element. The very, very game-shaping UB effect will still be in place, allowing a capital focus.

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Couldn't it get rid of the Great Works part instead to make way for the Unique Natural Wonder?

According to JFD the Natural Wonder would be doable and it would be so damn unique. Also, cutting off a victory path sounds terrible...

Pretty Please?

I think having the unique NW (generating Natural Gas) plus the happiness from great works in the UA, with the capital-centric aspect of the UB, is satisfactory. The Natural Gas resource will provide tourism, to help make up for the lack of tourism from GWs. Either that, or the happiness will supplement, not replace, the tourism (I think I like this better).

Scape: I really like my espionage focus, honestly. The Sportsman was Alganon's idea, and I agree that it's a dicey topic. He was my sounding board for appropriateness, as a German. As always, if there is a community-wide moral outrage there I'll delete it. I'm more inclined to delete it because it's hard to find a role for it...

But yes, Hoop, I think that's what I meant to have for it in my typo-ridden design document. I'll amend OP awaiting further discussion on it vs that construction soldier I posted before.

Scapegrace said:

Using a Sportsman as an East German UU is a very, very dicey prospect. They were basically used as experiments and pumped full of drugs by an uncaring state motivated only by the prospect of glory on the world stage.

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Well, I think that's the point of making it the UU. They were a major part of East Germany, for better or worse.

for better or worse.

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Alganon brings up a good point... Our World needs a Tyler Perry civ.

But in other good news, Kosovo is getting a lot of progress done!

Well, if you're that set on it:-

UU: Sportsman (replaces Great Merchant)
Radically different from the Great Merchant it replaces. Can enter Foreign Territory without Open Borders. May be used for an Athletics Meet instead of a Trade Mission; these generate additional Tourism with every Major Civilization for every Hospital, Medical Lab, and Stadium in the Empire, and if used within 3 tiles of a Foreign City with a Stadium, it permanently increases the Happiness output of all East German Cities by +1

"Using a Sportsman as an East German UU is a very, very dicey prospect. They were basically used as experiments and pumped full of drugs by an uncaring state motivated only by the prospect of glory on the world stage."

There was some drug affairs, but not every sportsman was a drug junkie

If you guys want some more ideas about East Germany you should watch "the Lives of Others".

There are female athletes who were pumped so full of testosterone - without being informed as to what would happen - to improve their performance that they now basically have to live as men. This kind of chemical torture is not what Civs stand for. At least, not for me. Others are free to disagree.

Why does every civ have to outline the positives of a civ, though?

They at least need to have a more traditional German name than "Sportsman".

Sportler?

That's probably what I'd do, Sportler.

Anyways, my concern with an effect s it fitting within the civilization. The focuses are on production, espionage, and workers. Would it be able to fit?

Also what do folks think of the Stasi effect? And you should read the Berlin Wall decision as adding unhappiness, not subtracting happiness. (is adding unhappiness possible? Otherwise we can come up with a similar effect)

The Stasi is good.

Anyway, which of these civs will likely be done first?

SuperWaffle247 said:

Also what do folks think of the Stasi effect?

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About the design from the first page?

I feel like it should have an either permanent or more frequent bonus. You have to consider that the likelihood of triggering that boost increases the later you are on the game; at the same rate that the likelihood of science even mattering by then only decreases. I don't know much about east germany but by reading the wikipedia page about the Stasi, I'm getting some should-be-spammable-building vibes from it, while at the moment it's no more useful than the constabulary already is (Build it only in your two major cities). Perhaps something happiness related (Mass surveillance of the population leads to less threats to the establishment); or better yet a bonus based around unhappiness? Excedent unhappiness turned into production, or simply removing the production penalty from unhappiness in that city? Gain extra happiness only enough to get you out of extremely negative situations, but not to get you on positive happiness? *Insert bonus* that increases relatively to your unhappiness? Something about twisting tourism into other yields? Also if anything else could be thought of for the UA, the last part of it could come to here.

I have it on pretty good authority that mucking around with Unhappiness is unpleasant, time-consuming, and generally not worth it.

If so, then I guess that you can just put 'adds 10 unhappiness' in the description, but then actually do it through some other way.

Zantonius Hamm said:

The Stasi is good.

Anyway, which of these civs will likely be done first?

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Probably Kosovo. Eli is compiling. I plan to compile the others after my semester ends.

I started this thread early to give lots of time for the designs to be perfected. Progress is being made on icons, but we still lack lua, text, leader screens.... But that's okay for now. It'll be awhile, but hopefully the finished product will be high quality as a result.

Re: Stasi it probably does need more, as there beefs to be an incentive to build it everywhere. There's too many production bonuses already in the design... Scape is right about unhappiness I just don't remember the details of the issues with it. Unfortunately that's the most clear choice. It could add happiness on its own? That seems boring. I'll think on it!

Anyway, I want to reinforce that these won't be coming out super quick but I did the reveal to ensure a better experience for everyone, including me.