GO1 - The Tsarina

Nice work, woopdeedoo! :goodjob:

Settling the Cities in the North
Spoiler :
Okay, now we have a bit of a dilemma... how should we settle the Gold Resources in the north?


Option A:
One possibility is to settle where your red dot is marked. Doing so gives us 3 Grasslands (4 if we steal one from the City to the south) plus the Oasis. The nice part about the Oasis is that we can farm 2 of the Grasslands pre-Civil Service.

So, 4 Grassland squares and 1 Oasis at 3 Food each = 5 squares that give us +1 Food.

Counting the City Centre, that gives us 2 + 1*5 = 7 Food surplus without working the Gold Resources. Working 2 Desert Hills Gold Mines brings us down to 3 surplus Food, which is an acceptable value.

We would then settle ON TOP of the Plains Sheep square, which wastes the Sheep completely but does give us a Fish + Gold City. Fish with a Work Boat and a Lighthouse = 6 Food, aka +4 Food on top of the City Centre's 2 Food, and -2 for the Gold Mine puts us at 2 + 4 - 2 = 4 Food surplus, which we'd maintain while working Coast squares.

So overall, this option is decent.


Option B:
Another option is to settle 1N of the red dot, but then we'd lose 1 Grassland square, would have to wait for Civil Service for TWO instead of just one of our Grassland squares to be Farmed, and would have:
3 Grassland Farms + Oasis = 4 extra Food + the City's Centre = 6 extra Food, which would be eaten-up by 3 Gold Resources, leaving the City stagnant. It would take a long time to grow large enough to be working all of those Gold Mines, though.

In so doing, we could at least settle 1NE of the PSheep, so that a different City could work the Fish + Sheep Resources. That Fish City would get +4 from the Fish, +2 from the Sheep, plus the City Centre's 2 Food gives us 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 surplus Food.


Option C:
Yet another possibility is to settle 1NW of the Oasis. Here what we would be doing is partnering-up the Sheep with the Gold Resources. Would it help to do so, though?

Plains Sheep = 4 Food, or +2 Food.
We'd then only have 2 Grassland squares and the Oasis, giving us 3 * +1 Food

City Centre = 2 + 2 from the Sheep + 3 * 1 = 2 + 2 + 3 = 7 - 6 for the 3 Gold Mines leaves us at only 1 Food surplus, which is better than 0 but isn't amazing, either.

Here, we would have no choice but to settle Fish City at the northern tip of the peninsula, giving it +4 Food from the Fish and 2 Food from the City's Centre, for a surplus of 6 Food.


Summary:
Option A: Gold City = 3 surplus Food, Fish City = 4 surplus Food
Option B: Gold City = 0 surplus Food, Fish City = 8 surplus Food
Option C: Gold City = 1 surplus Food, Fish City = 6 surplus Food


Out of those options, Option B deviously appears to give us the most surplus Food. However, working Gold Mines is a Good Thing To Do and Option B takes nearly forever for us to be working more than 1 Gold Mine, let alone 2 or 3 of them, so I really don't like that option, as we technically won't be working 2 of the Gold Mines for a long time and it will be a REALLLLLLY long time before we will work the 3rd Gold Mine.

Option C isn't much better on that front, but is slightly improved, because our Food is concentrated a little bit better (+2 Food from the Sheep means only 1 citizen to get +2 Food while +1 Food from Grassland Farms means needing 2 citizens to get +2 Food in Option B), but only a little bit better.

Since we don't need a City with a large Food surplus (we already have a Great Person Farm planned), I don't see a priority to concentrate a lot of Food in a single City (we might want to do so if we didn't have a Great Person Farm planned yet, though).

Therefore, I would suggest Option A, which means:
i. Settling on the red dot as marked
AND
ii. Settling on top of the Plains Sheep square, to get both the Fish and the northern Gold within our fat cross


Okay, it will be nice to settle those two islands to the north of Alex's empire eventually, but they are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY far from our capital, so I'm not very enthusiastic about settling there now. Maybe once we have built a Forbidden Palace more in the north (which can't be built until we have Code of Laws and have built some Courthouses) could we consider settling that far away.


I would still like to see us sending a Settler + Axeman pair OR a Settler + Chariot pair on a Galley toward the south-east, to see if we can luck out with another City location beyond the Cultural Bridge that Marble City created for us.
 
Before we are done exploring, we should check out whether or not we have Coast connections around the north-west part of our mainland landmass.

In particular, see the following image, wherein we want to know if the red-coloured question marks are Coast squares or not.

If any of them are Coast squares, then we might have another island or continent that we can reach, so we'd for certain want to send a boat to said question-mark Coast squares. If all of the question marks are Ocean squares, then we won't have any sort of immediate connection (although there is always the possibility of a Cultural Bridge connection being created later after our borders expand) and thus we would not need to send a boat to said area.



SINCE we have a land unit in the area, rather than sending a boat to all of the three red circles, I would suggest that we just plan to send a land unit to the two yellow circles. Either approach will reveal the question mark squares, while it should be a lot faster for a Chariot to do the work since we already have a Chariot in the area and since we only have a few boats as it is.
 
Similarly, we could get a bit more exploration in around the north-east island, as follows:


Since we don't have a unit in the area, rather than waiting to get a unit up there to explore the yellow circles, we might as well aim to just have the Work Boat go and check out the red circles.


Since the Work Boat is soon going to have nothing to do, we still have a lot of Work Boat Exploration turns to check out these red circles.
 
I'd like to be the 7th player.
Send me a pm though when I have to play my round, as I can sometimes forget such things :blush:

I'll add you to the roster. Oh, and I normally send out a PM to the next two players whenever somebody plays anyway, so that's no problem at all :)

EDIT: That means you're up after Toxicman :)
 
That's fine. For now I'll just skip you until further notice. Let me know when you can play again and I'll put you back on the regular roster. :)
 
I set GP farms production to a library (why would a GP farm build units?).
Spoiler :


Can someone give me a little bit of explanation on the research of Calendar? I can’t see any calendar resources but Alexander’s dyes, and were are… skipping currency and code of laws? Ugh.

Anyway, I continued researching it as it was almost done. We can start on the MoM now (well, calendar makes more sense than I thought, but I’d still research currency first). I obviously set research on currency next. We should get 4 island cities to get the most out of our coastal cities.

Spoiler :


Uhm… thanks GLH. I seriously doubted if I should keep him for a golden age or trade mission him post-astronomy, but I decided to send him to Athens to get our economy out of this enormous pit.

Spoiler :


I decided currency was not a good idea after all and went for archery to archer-rush Alexander.

Spoiler :


:lol: Ok, I popped archery from a hut, to be honest. There is a nice island to the south (thanks for pointing that out, Dhoomstriker!) which I got to thanks to our culture allowing ocean-travel.

There is silver, fish, copper and another fish on the island. It seems good to settle for the :) from silver and the overseas trade routes.

Spoiler :


I whip a settler in Yakutsk to claim the triple-gold site. It can’t work all gold until CS, but with sheep and oasis it can already work two of them.
Someone suggested settling south of the gold – I decided not to because sheep and oasis were not revealed back then.

Spoiler :


The Galley of Mr. Scout got killed by a barb galley. Mr. Scout would appreciate it if the next player sends a galley to pick him up :p For now, he can play Robinson Cruisoe.

Spoiler :


A trade mission is done in Athens…

Spoiler :


Followed by a DoW. Corinth, the city to the south, was taken at the loss of one chariot. Hurray! Sparta also costed only one axe, and is razed to settle 1N. The troops march to Athens.

Spoiler :


Finally, currency! We continue to deficit research much-needed economic techs.

Spoiler :


I intercept a Greek settling mission at the cost of two axemen.

Spoiler :


Yay, courthouses.

Spoiler :


The colossus was only thirteen turns in the city which built the GLH and the mids, so I gave it a try. It worked! It’s quite useful on this map, I think, especially combined with GLH.

Spoiler :


Athens is taken at the loss of 4 of Yoshi’s chariots. Sorry, Yoshi :blush:

Spoiler :


We get stonehenge, which is not particulary useful combined with Creative, but still. This city makes a good GP farm, I think. Or we could go Moai (ten water tiles) and make it our ship-spam city by workshopping/mining all grass.

Spoiler :


We got a GG from one of Athens’ battles. If someone wants to make a super-medic and build the HE, feel free to do so. I’m not good with GGs :p

Spoiler :


Maps of the empire. I suggest the next person backfills the empty spots, settles the islands and builds courthouses and markets. Our economy is a little more solid now, with 50 BPT and 25 net GPT at 0% science. With courthouses and the FP available, we can probably start rexing like hell now :)
Don’t forget the galley for Mr. Scout, btw ;)
Spoiler :




 
Since 4 of Yoshi's chariots died to take Athens, Athens should be renamed "Yoshens" :smug:

Good work with the Colossus, btw
 
Nice turnset, strijder20!

Can someone give me a little bit of explanation on the research of Calendar? I can’t see any calendar resources but Alexander’s dyes
We have Incense and until we have or get a Gold Resource, without Calendar, we have/had a total of 0 Happiness Resources, which has meant major unhappiness across our empire.

We had a good long debate on the subject. Did you forget to read what was discussed in the thread before playing? :mischief:


A trade mission is done in Athens
Good call. :)


I intercept a Greek settling mission at the cost of two axemen.
It can often be better to let an AI live with a newly-founded junky City. Allowing them to do so gives you a chance to keep them alive (which has possible uses--tech trading, tech theft, bribing other AIs to go to war with them for shared Diplomatic boosts, etc) while they have not much more than a very terrible City (it is like they started again from the beginning, except with knowing some techs).

Also, leaving Alex alive could have meant the chance of cultivating a 10 Experience Point unit in order to unlock the Heroic Epic and the chance of cultivating additional Great Generals over time.


We get stonehenge, which is not particulary useful combined with Creative, but still. This city makes a good GP farm, I think. Or we could go Moai (ten water tiles) and make it our ship-spam city by workshopping/mining all grass.
Interesting... are you suggesting that we put both Moai Statues and the Heroic Epic here?

If not, then I don't see why putting down Workshops in this City is different from putting down Workshops in any other City. Athens probably is fine without Workshops anyway, as it has several Hills squares. Workshops, until the late game (or mid-game if your games tend to make it into the Modern Age--mine don't) tend to be a poor substitute for Mines. Later on, they are a good improvement, but generally you need Guilds and Chemistry before they become solid improvements, so until then, they are rather subpar and I'd rather build Mines and Farms, if given the choice (you don't get a choice if there aren't any Hills squares to Mine).


We got a GG from one of Athens’ battles. If someone wants to make a super-medic and build the HE, feel free to do so. I’m not good with GGs
Seeing as how we won't be warring again for a long time, I'd rather settle him than create a Super Medic unit that won't be used for a long time (we can't go to war if we don't know any other players!!!).

I'll have to see if it will still be somehow possible to unlock the Heroic Epic without using up a Great General in this manner (it would require finding a unit with a lot of experience points and sending him against some barb units). If I can't find a way to get us a 10 Experience Point unit, then I might have no choice but to burn the Great General in this manner.

Since we have The Pyramids for Reprsentation, a settled Great General becomes even more powerful than usual, as he would provide us with free 3 Flasks per turn.


Don’t forget the galley for Mr. Scout, btw
Ummm, don't you mean a Galley for Settler Parties? Why do we care about the Scout? The Scout can probably be disbanded unless there are additional landmasses without AIs that we can reach using Galleys. If there are landmasses with AIs, then a Chariot is probably better, as it still gets 2 movement points but can survive if it runs into a Barb. The only value that the Scout offers is better Huts, but we won't expect to find any Huts on an AI continent at this stage of the game.

I will consider keeping the Scout around for spawn-busting purposes, but if we didn't manage to get a 10-Experience-Point unit yet, I'd rather see Barbs spawning instead of not spawning and thus will disband him.

That said, I'm not sure if the island that the Scout is currently located on is even large enough for Barb units to spawn on.
 
...
Sorry. :blush:
 

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Nice turnset, strijder20!


We have Incense and until we have or get a Gold Resource, without Calendar, we have/had a total of 0 Happiness Resources, which has meant major unhappiness across our empire.

We had a good long debate on the subject. Did you forget to read what was discussed in the thread before playing? :mischief:



Good call. :)



It can often be better to let an AI live with a newly-founded junky City. Allowing them to do so gives you a chance to keep them alive (which has possible uses--tech trading, tech theft, bribing other AIs to go to war with them for shared Diplomatic boosts, etc) while they have not much more than a very terrible City (it is like they started again from the beginning, except with knowing some techs).

Also, leaving Alex alive could have meant the chance of cultivating a 10 Experience Point unit in order to unlock the Heroic Epic and the chance of cultivating additional Great Generals over time.



Interesting... are you suggesting that we put both Moai Statues and the Heroic Epic here?

If not, then I don't see why putting down Workshops in this City is different from putting down Workshops in any other City. Athens probably is fine without Workshops anyway, as it has several Hills squares. Workshops, until the late game (or mid-game if your games tend to make it into the Modern Age--mine don't) tend to be a poor substitute for Mines. Later on, they are a good improvement, but generally you need Guilds and Chemistry before they become solid improvements, so until then, they are rather subpar and I'd rather build Mines and Farms, if given the choice (you don't get a choice if there aren't any Hills squares to Mine).



Seeing as how we won't be warring again for a long time, I'd rather settle him than create a Super Medic unit that won't be used for a long time (we can't go to war if we don't know any other players!!!).

I'll have to see if it will still be somehow possible to unlock the Heroic Epic without using up a Great General in this manner (it would require finding a unit with a lot of experience points and sending him against some barb units). If I can't find a way to get us a 10 Experience Point unit, then I might have no choice but to burn the Great General in this manner.

Since we have The Pyramids for Reprsentation, a settled Great General becomes even more powerful than usual, as he would provide us with free 3 Flasks per turn.



Ummm, don't you mean a Galley for Settler Parties? Why do we care about the Scout? The Scout can probably be disbanded unless there are additional landmasses without AIs that we can reach using Galleys. If there are landmasses with AIs, then a Chariot is probably better, as it still gets 2 movement points but can survive if it runs into a Barb. The only value that the Scout offers is better Huts, but we won't expect to find any Huts on an AI continent at this stage of the game.

I will consider keeping the Scout around for spawn-busting purposes, but if we didn't manage to get a 10-Experience-Point unit yet, I'd rather see Barbs spawning instead of not spawning and thus will disband him.

That said, I'm not sure if the island that the Scout is currently located on is even large enough for Barb units to spawn on.

Sorry, I missed the incense. We have two of them now, with that new gold city.

I haven't started hooking it up, though.
I did read what was said previously, but not ALL of it. That would be quite insane :lol:

Maybe letting Alex alive was not that bad, but as the only thing he had on us was IW and as he was unlikely to tech anymore, I thought I'd kill them. But they might have returned to Athens anyway if I went to the forest next to Athens.

For Athens I'm suggesting just Moai, and possible workshops later on in the game when we want a navy. Moai and NE is an idea, as Athens is a quite good Moai city IMHO (10 water tiles and good land tiles).

And I do not like it how you totally disrespect Mr. Scout. :mad:
 
And I do not like it how you totally disrespect Mr. Scout.
Alright, I'll take a closer look at the situation and see what we will do with him. If there aren't any more possible Huts within pre-Astronomy range, though, AND if we are losing Gold per turn due to his existence, AND if we don't need him for spawn-busting, then I will allow him to retire to the wilds to live a nomadic life. How's that? :)

I did read what was said previously, but not ALL of it. That would be quite insane :lol:
I read it all (and sometimes more than once, such as for my own messages, to look for mistakes).

Still, no worries.


Athens is a quite good Moai city IMHO (10 water tiles and good land tiles).
It all depends upon our Happiness levels... if we can support 15+ citizens in a City, then having 15 water squares and 5 other squares worked makes sense.

If we don't have anywhere near that level of Happiness (which will likely be the case with this game) then I would tend to work the Mines and other land-based squares in Athens, meaning that Moai might be better placed in a City that has far fewer Hills (or no Hills), since, say, the City can only work 8 or 9 squares, then we won't be "wasting" Mines and/or Moai water squares in a City that can't support working both.

Getting Silver plus a Forge (+2 Happiness with Gold and Silver) will definitely help us, but I'm not sure by how much.



No worries about Alex... we'll just have to make do with his lands under our control. ;) Awww, poor us, muahahahahaha!


Okay, so it seems like I will need to:
1. Get 2 more off-continent Cities ASAP
2. Resettle Alex's Fish City to also include Gold
3. Seriously consider settling another City for Fish + Dye even though it will overlap with Corinth (but Corinth is a junky City anyway). Maybe I can get a Barb to raze Corinth for us... :mischief:
4. Improve the Incense and a Dye
5. Get us on a tech path that will let us meet other AIs (Optics then Astronomy)
6. See if we can generate some Great Scientists to help us along the tech path for point 5
7. Rebuild a Galley or two since we apparently don't have any
8. Possibly build a Trireme or two for anti-Barb-Galley defence. They can always be upgraded cheaply into world-exploring Caravels anyway, so it is rarely a waste to build them
9. Decide if we're going to go after Aesthetics or not
10. We may be forced to Lightbulb Philosophy before we can Lightbulb Optics, so I might have to get that tech... which would be fine because we REALLY could use a Religion, which would help out with our Happiness issues
11. If our tech path to date prevents us from Lightbulbing down the Astronomy path, then we'll just have to aim to get Civil Service for Bureaucracy, in order to speed up our manual research down that tech path
12. See if we can get started on Courthouses for an eventual Forbidden Palace
13. Magic-up an army of Workers from out of nowhere

Yeah, that's a lot to do and a lot of it probably won't get commpleted in this turnset, but it's nice to think about where we want to take the game so that we'll have a medium term plan that extends beyond this turnset.
 
Alright, I'll take a closer look at the situation and see ...
... where we
want to take the game so that we'll have a medium term plan that extends beyond this turnset.

I was joking about Mr. Scout, actually :lol: but it might not be a bad idea to pick him up with a caravel if he is still around then.
I started teching construction for cheap collisea, but as you can change that to whatever you want (IW actually seems better now, with all those jungles and possible production boosts popping up) it brings us one step closer to the Notre Dame, which seems to be a quite important wonder on this map (and we have stone). Maybe you could start teching in that direction? But I did not look at the other options yet, so those might be better (like early astronomy).
I suggest you improve the incense near Gold Mining Inc, as there are already three workers there improving the gold.
Oh yes, about those workshops in Athens : I was suggesting them (indeed late game, when we have a high happy cap) because we have ridiculous amounts of food there. That is, if we make it a production city. But if we make it a GP farm, the mines will do.
 
Hmm, should I send a reminder PM? Maybe not...
potential PM said:
The Tsarina SG - Reminder
Dhoomstriker: you're up, although you post enough in the thread that you probably know three(?) days after the last turnset.
Me, you're on deck.
 
Check the first post :D
 
I have played and have taken some screenshots but the write-up will have to wait for another day.

EDIT: I have updated the signs in the saved game. Please use the latest version of the saved game (the file attached to this message).
 

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My exams are now over, yay. Please re-add me to the roster, but next week (the second week in October) I will be away on holiday and unable to play.
 
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