ALC Game #23: America/Lincoln

I have to laugh at the number of times having Protective would help here. :) With Vassalage, you'd be producing CG3 longbows right out of the chute. Oh, well, there's always the Churchill game. :lol:

Everytime I get Monty or Shaka next door, it's never when I'm playing as a Protective leader (which admittedly is not often). No, it's when I have a late UU, like this time, or was in the mood for a peaceful builder game... :(
 
Bienvenue, mon ami! Votre anglais est tres bien; meilleur, je pense, comme mon francais. ;)

Your French isn't that bad :)

That idea of trying to change Monty's state religion is a good one. I'll see if it's possible. If I can get open borders with him I can try to send missionaries his way, though I don't think he'll agree to OB anytime soon. If it's possible I may go for it, otherwise, the war continues.

You don't have to get any OB with Monty, just give him a missionary as a gift.
I don't know if you can gift while at war. But if that's possible, that should make the trick.
Another thing i thought about, you should ask him to deny all his trade agreement (as much as you could) for peace. That should make his friend less friendly. In his case, diplomatic malus is more creepling for him than any GPT he could give to you.

Anyway, you should benefit from your "broken resolution" :)
Make peace once you've reached Nationalism, that's what i would do.

I'm playing at noble by the way, maybe i should tell you that this is my 0.02 :commerce:

Am i understandable ?
 
To gift a missionary, you need to make it enter Monty's territory. To do that, you need open borders. Not very easy. And I think they fixed the issue of gifting a caravel with a missionary inside.

And asking someone to stop trading will also get you a demerit from the targeted AI: "You made a trade embargo against us" or something like that.
 
Anyway, you should benefit from your "broken resolution" :)
Make peace once you've reached Nationalism, that's what i would do.

I'm playing at noble by the way, maybe i should tell you that this is my 0.02 :commerce:

Am i understandable ?

Yes, you're very easy to understand.

However, I would be inclined not to stop warring when I get Nationalism, but to step it up; I can switch into that civic, after all, to help alleviate war weariness and to draft units.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the way to deal with Monty is to give him too many targets to deal with. Send 2 Knight/Mace/Pike pillaging stacks into his territory along with the big SoD, while generating more units back home. That should hopefully keep his units tied up in his own territory rather than having to fend all of them off in my recently captured cities. And the gold from pillaging won't hurt either.
 
Your strategy for dealing with Monty's attacks has worked very well. The deeper into Aztecland you advance, the quicker the counter-attacking stacks will show up. Advancing up the coast captures the capital next but one and swings up the coast, ending in Gaul. Monty's stacks were about the size I was expecting but they weren't as balanced.

I can see why you'd want to finish off Monty and you've kept up with the techs whilst doing it. I think that Monty will have as large a stack again to send against you. Once you have the capital and a two to one superiority in cities the faster the end should come. Then you can whip courthouses and plan to take out Hatty.
 
Geez, i'm in a frenzy posting mood :p

By the time other AI get FR, Hatty will remain Budhist.
I think you could use it as a leverage against other civs and Hatty.

If you can get Hatty to fight Monty, you'll gain a "common struggle bonus", when other civs turn FR, you will be dearing Hatty best friend. Get her to fight all game long : Zara could do the job by the time happy friendship with other leader and Hatty wear out.

Then ask Hatty to fight each leader at a time, managing to not wype them out.
Should give you enough time to get that UU of yours :lol:
Of course, every bit of this strategy is relying on you managing to change Monty religion. Yeah i'm crazy, but i'm french, so i don't care :cool:

Am i getting too :crazyeye: ?
Feel free to tell me how wrong or dreaming i am :eek:
 
The more I think about it, the more I think that the way to deal with Monty is to give him too many targets to deal with. Send 2 Knight/Mace/Pike pillaging stacks into his territory along with the big SoD, while generating more units back home. That should hopefully keep his units tied up in his own territory rather than having to fend all of them off in my recently captured cities. And the gold from pillaging won't hurt either.
Pardon my ignorance, but won't that just up the war weariness? At least defeating his stacks on your own territory doesn't aggravate your citizenry.

For wars of conquest, I also prefer two stacks of death leapfrogging each other. Keeps the operational tempo high, and defensive units come in from behind. So if you're going to impose more war weariness, why not just take cities faster?
 
Pardon my ignorance, but won't that just up the war weariness? At least defeating his stacks on your own territory doesn't aggravate your citizenry.

For wars of conquest, I also prefer two stacks of death leapfrogging each other. Keeps the operational tempo high, and defensive units come in from behind. So if you're going to impose more war weariness, why not just take cities faster?
Well, I think that's a good long-term goal with Monty, but it will take some time to build a second stack. In the meantime, a couple of 3-unit pillagers won't hurt WW too much. Sometimes I just have those units lead the enemy on a merry little chase.
 
It's unfortunate that you lost visibility of Monty's data on the power graph, so it's hard to know how badly his military has been crippled. At Monarch/Emperor level what I normally see is that the AI throws everything it's got at me as soon as I invade. Once the mobile part of their army is defeated my SOD doesn't have to deal with much in the way of counterattacks. The AI doesn't seem to have the ability to marshal its reinforcements, but will instead attack with individual units. :crazyeye:

Of course the Immortal AI may be able to produce reinforcements fast enough to counterattack with sufficient numbers to cause problems.

You may be causing problems for yourself by being too patient. The longer you wait in captured cities for a counterattack the more time you give Monty to build reinforcements. You might be better off pushing forward as soon as your SOD is healed.


On another note, I noticed something that could cause a bit of a complication regarding the plans for the Aztec invasion The Ethiopian city of Debre Berhan has been culture bombed. Given its location it will have been putting culture into Tenochtitlan's city tile since then. You'll likely need to leave a significant number of troops in Tenochtitlan after capturing it to keep it from revolting and flipping to Zara. Capturing it last would make that easier.

It might make sense to continue the war by heading north to Tlaxcala, then head east to Atzcawhatever, then Gaul then swing west along the north coast until reaching Tenochtitlan. This would mean the brunt of the Aztec counterattack will be fall on Texcoco and Tlaxcala. This path would have other advantages: capturing the lower maintenance cities first, quicker establishment of a buffer zone for NY and Boston, and also a quicker path to reinforce your SOD during the early stages (if a worker completes a road through the jungle north of Boston). Of course it does leave the Aztec core cities in Monty's hands longer.

As to pillaging just make sure you don't pillage any cottages that you would want to keep to help your economy later. Do you intend to do a SE->CE transition in this game or just stay with the SE until the end?
 
As to pillaging just make sure you don't pillage any cottages that you would want to keep to help your economy later. Do you intend to do a SE->CE transition in this game or just stay with the SE until the end?

A good question. What do you folks recommend? Keeping in mind, of course, that this is Immortal level and a Philosophical leader...
 
Agreed. There is so much grassland that it would be a waste not to transition. Washington can remain as a great GP farm (to take advantage of being Philo).
 
Hatty will probably stay Buddist because OR is her favorite religion.

But I wouldn't be too concerned with her friendly status. I would :backstab: her. She is safely teching away like a mad woman and probably has few units. make peace with Monty. Fortify your border cities and then mass some trebs/maces. Go smack her around a bit. Vassalize her then gift back a few cities to counter the diplohit for attaching her.

Aborting the war against Monty before he's decisively beat? Turning your back to him in order to backstab a friendly teching partner that's not likely to attack you herself, and one that is your next door neighbor (meaning you could always wipe her much later if she's coming close to running away with victory)? :eek:

You must think Sis'' got amphibious War Elephants or some other completely overpowering advantage...? :smug:
 
Validator: There can't be any Ethiopian culture from Debre Berhan in Tenochtitlan since both cities are on separate continents divided by 2 sea tiles. So I'd also recommend going straight for the capital and the triple riverside grassland gems city of Teotihuacan.
And once more, I would refrain from pulling anybody else into your war because of the danger of Monty capitulating (new thresholds in 3.17???).
 
What do you think about marching a unit of pikes/mace/trebs to Monte's capital? The horsies should die pretty good on the pikes, maces for the assault. I've found razing a capital (or two) a good way to at the very least blunt offensive production, brings the enemy to the table real quick and can sometimes cause a capitulation. Possible to vassal Monte with a few deep surgical strikes? I always enjoyed getting the warmongers as vassal pet-dogs. You could pretty much do what you wanted with a friendly, same-religion, suddenly a lot more tech-savvy (here you go Monte) warmonger.

An added bonus of the deep striker unit is that Monte will likely forgo raids into your territory and spend his time trying to deal with the 'offensive defense' stack. Fighting the war 'over there' may give you some time to get a follow-up stack or build some infrastructure.

It sucks that you don't have your courthouses up, would have been nice to bring a spy or two in to lower a key cities defenses in case your trebs get flanked to pieces. Just don't forget to bring that shiny MASH unit of yours (when you build it).
 
Validator: There can't be any Ethiopian culture from Debre Berhan in Tenochtitlan since both cities are on separate continents divided by 2 sea tiles. So I'd also recommend going straight for the capital and the triple riverside grassland gems city of Teotihuacan.
And once more, I would refrain from pulling anybody else into your war because of the danger of Monty capitulating (new thresholds in 3.17???).

Beat me by a couple seconds. :)
 
Remember Monty's UB. Sacrificial Altars allow for virtually anger-free whipping, assuming Monty builds in high-food locations to take advantage of it. This will allow him to continuously field large armies.

There is no easy way here. You just have to beat him down, preferably with a tech edge.
 
Am I missing something? can't you only convert via diplomacy to what you are? In which case, wouldn't Sis have to take 2 turns of anarchy switching to another religion and back, just to find that asking him to convert is redded out? (Most religious nuts in the game won't switch religions for anything, only spies can accomplish it.)
 
RE the economy. Hybrid all the way. Philo Lincoln with Washington as a GPfarm, combined with all the grasslands in Montytown.
 
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