An AI conundrum...

S

Smokeybear

Emperor
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
Location
US
Explain to me why, if the AI has no real worries about happiness, then why are they all so incredibly anxious to get to Notre Dame and build it? I hardly ever get to build it in any of my games, no matter how well I'm doing and how fast I build up my science and research the techs. There will always be at least one AI (and likely most of them) beelining straight for it, no matter what, as if their very virtual life depended on it. And it obiously doesn't, so what gives?
 
Really I always get to build Notre Dame but It's because i rush Himeji Castle and by that time also have 2 free great engineers ^^
I think if an AI builds alot of wonders and wants culture victory they don't really care what wonders to build...
Notre Dame should be easy to build for you~ because civilization who go more military in technology tree rarely builds wonders.
 
Cissnei said:
Really I always get to build Notre Dame but It's because i rush Himeji Castle and by that time also have 2 free great engineers ^^
I think if an AI builds alot of wonders and wants culture victory they don't really care what wonders to build...
Notre Dame should be easy to build for you~ because civilization who go more military in technology tree rarely builds wonders.
Click to expand...

No, I don't beeline military, I hardly ever deliberately go for pure domination games. Even the games where I do favor domination, I still go with a balanced tech strategy that includes more than just beelining for muskets. That's why someone almost always beats me to it, I guess. Why they feel they need to rush-build it the second they get to it though, that's the odd part.
 
I generally beeline to Philosophy, then to Construction, then to Machinery, then to the tech that allows Notre Dame. Since I ussually play as Nebby, I guess it goes faster.

As I approach that tech, I prep by ensuring there is a workshop/stoneworks/etc in the city I am going to build it as I rarely have a GE by that time.

If I dont sense a militaristic ugency, I will sometimes beeline the notre dame tech before machinery.

However, if I dont foresee building more than 4 cities, I sometimes skip it all together.

----------

Certain civs seem to prioritize it while others completely ignore it. Same thing with Artemis. In my current game, at turn 180 (or so), I saw that Artemise was still not built and it had (for me) a 5 turn build time. SOme games, it is the first wonder to pop.
 
Smokeybear said:
No, I don't beeline military, I hardly ever deliberately go for pure domination games. Even the games where I do favor domination, I still go with a balanced tech strategy that includes more than just beelining for muskets. That's why someone almost always beats me to it, I guess. Why they feel they need to rush-build it the second they get to it though, that's the odd part.
Click to expand...

Same here. I need to beeline it just to have a chance. Even then I don't trust hard build and will have a GE stored up and ready to go.

As to why....I suppose we could rationalize it by saying it will increase golden ages for AI, but given the amount of happiness boost they get, its a marginal impact.

Same logic applies to lux trading. Given the lack of happiness problems, its odd they even want to trade with the human, unless its just for golden ages.
 
whyidie said:
Same logic applies to lux trading. Given the lack of happiness problems, its odd they even want to trade with the human, unless its just for golden ages.
Click to expand...

Well, the logic behind lux trading is pretty obvious- it has nothing to do with whether an AI needs your luxes or not, it is simply a game mechanic which allows the human player to be able to trade his stuff for gold. If it had not been done that way, then you would very seldom be able to sell any luxes, and the trading aspect of the game would practically disappear. And so would your gold. Now if they actually made it so that the AI civs needed more happiness, and didn't get an automatic cheat-bucket full of it all the way through, then whether or not one of them actually needed your lux or not could be included as a game factor. Since by the very nature of the game mechanics they will NOT really need your luxes, due to said cheat, then I don't consider it unfair at all that they are also forced to buy YOUR luxes, if they have the gold. What's sauce for the goose...
 
Smokeybear said:
Explain to me why, if the AI has no real worries about happiness, then why are they all so incredibly anxious to get to Notre Dame and build it? I hardly ever get to build it in any of my games, no matter how well I'm doing and how fast I build up my science and research the techs. There will always be at least one AI (and likely most of them) beelining straight for it, no matter what, as if their very virtual life depended on it. And it obiously doesn't, so what gives?
Click to expand...

AI behavior is largely controlled by flavors; and happiness buildings is controlled with them.
As to what the AI gets out of it; two additional natural golden ages.
 
Rush it. I always build ND because I'm not the best at managing happiness.. Then again I always have the world's 1st and 2nd largest cities... Suddenly, life makes sense. :eek:
 
Meh, pop unhappiness = 0 instead of 1 = Civ 5 benefits with strategy of civ 4 xD

And all of sudden all those accursed happiness wonders you need desperately is unimportant at last.
 
Callonia said:
Meh, pop unhappiness = 0 instead of 1 = Civ 5 benefits with strategy of civ 4 xD

And all of sudden all those accursed happiness wonders you need desperately is unimportant at last.
Click to expand...

I should have stated that happiness is hardly ever an issue in my games, there are plenty of ways to get all you need, I find. I'm just morbidly fascinated by how the AI seems to think that ND is the hottest thing since tobasco ice cream, and sprint for it like it's the be all end all of civ wonders in every game.
 
Smokeybear said:
Well, the logic behind lux trading is pretty obvious- it has nothing to do with whether an AI needs your luxes or not, it is simply a game mechanic which allows the human player to be able to trade his stuff for gold. If it had not been done that way, then you would very seldom be able to sell any luxes, and the trading aspect of the game would practically disappear. And so would your gold. Now if they actually made it so that the AI civs needed more happiness, and didn't get an automatic cheat-bucket full of it all the way through, then whether or not one of them actually needed your lux or not could be included as a game factor. Since by the very nature of the game mechanics they will NOT really need your luxes, due to said cheat, then I don't consider it unfair at all that they are also forced to buy YOUR luxes, if they have the gold. What's sauce for the goose...
Click to expand...

Considering how wide and tall the AI goes, I can see the need for Notre Dame. Can't say I've noticed any trends in terms of which AI builds it most, will keep an eye on it.
 
This goes with their rush Chichen Itza strategy of getting lots of golden ages from happiness. ;)
 
Smokeybear said:
I should have stated that happiness is hardly ever an issue in my games, there are plenty of ways to get all you need, I find. I'm just morbidly fascinated by how the AI seems to think that ND is the hottest thing since tobasco ice cream, and sprint for it like it's the be all end all of civ wonders in every game.
Click to expand...


Dood, I play on huge maps, I'd like to have actually an proper method of covering the whole world in my color.
 
Well the AI can't really just ignore certain wonders, else they'd be essentially free grabs for the human player. It also seems that the AI doesn't necessarily bee-line for certain wonders rather they rush certain techs and certain wonders happen to get unlocked. Chichen Itza always goes fast because nearly all the AI rush for Civil Service for pike spam. Notre Dame goes fast shortly after to back up that pike spam with treb spam.

Although Forbidden Palace doesn't make sense. That one often goes immediately after the first AI hits Renaissance. Why they push banking, I dunno.
 
Callonia said:
Dood, I play on huge maps, I'd like to have actually an proper method of covering the whole world in my color.
Click to expand...

I remember your post about tweaking the config file to give yourself endless free happiness- and I'm all for doing whatever you want with your own single-player games, it's all good. I've just never had much problem with happiness since G&K's religion and other changes came along, even on large maps. I don't play huge maps anymore since about halfway through a game, the AI turns take so long I can go make a sammy and take a nap and wake up about the time it's my turn again. Even on large-scale domination games where I have endless puppets going, I still always end up with excess happiness most of the time. :c5happy:
 
joncnunn said:
AI behavior is largely controlled by flavors; and happiness buildings is controlled with them.
As to what the AI gets out of it; two additional natural golden ages.
Click to expand...
Yes, AI seems to value happiness pretty high, even if it doesn't really need it due to its handicap. Which is good, in a way it makes the AI play like a human player would do. More or less the top 3 most difficult wonders for me to get seem to be Chichen Itza, Forbidden Palace and Notre Dame - all of which have a pretty heavy happiness bias. But if the AI skipped over them, it would make pretty boring and easy for the human player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
AI Cheating
Replies
2
Views
472
Bonyduck Campersang
Bonyduck Campersang
M
Loss of infrastructure when city is conquered
Replies
9
Views
549
martindo
M
ThermobaricPunch
Multiplayer desyncs (loading screen between turns) and weird bugs
Replies
1
Views
852
coolhandluke11
C
mastrude
[BNW] [Deleted]
Replies
3
Views
353
mastrude
mastrude
R
Few questions about vox populi and more
Replies
1
Views
302
Yerltvachovicic
Yerltvachovicic
Top Bottom