Enhanced techs:the tech that Civ is good at

[plarq]

Okay,"Enhanced" here means:
(1)Increased ability to produce a SGL
(2)Even not the first one to discover,still have a smaller chance for SGL
(3)Can boost Age of Scientific Discovery(Crazy)
(4)Research on that tech gets cheaper

My List for 31 Civs in Conquest:
America:Electricity(Thomas A. Edison)
Arabia:Monotheism(Islam)
Aztec:Ceremonial Burial(Ritual sacrifice)
Babylon:Code of Laws(Hammurabi)
Byzantine:Theology(Greek Catholic still in Russia and Serbia)
Carthage:Map Making(Western Mediterrain trade master)
Celts:Warrior Code(The form of Gallic warrior spirit)
China:Construction(Great Wall)
Egypt:Wheel(How to build pyramid without wheeled mechanics)
England:Invention(They invented longbow)
France:Chivalry(French Paladins and Crusaders)
Germany:Industrialization(How they become a superpower in late 19th century and early 20th century?)
Greece:Polytheism(Greek Mythology rocks!Along with Temple of Artemis)
Hittites:Wheels(3 men ride on a chariot without a wheel?)
Inca:Engineering(Build roads in Andres is difficult)
India: Democracy(only democracy model in 3rd world)
Iroquios:Horseback Riding(Only thing they get from Whiteman but disasters)
Japan:Chivalry(Or shall we say Samurairy?)
Korea:Printing Press or Metallurgy(They learned both from China and developed them MUCH better,need to decide)
Maya:Mathematics or Astronomy(Their Mayan Pyramids are used for timing)
Mongol:Horseback Riding(We're born on horses!)
Ottoman Turks:Gunpowder(Import from AOE2,they are "gunpowder" civ)
Netherlands:Banking(Dutch is getting rich)
Portugal:Navigation(Magellan,Da Gama and Dias)
Persia:Philosophy(Zoroaster)
Rome:Republic(Roman republic is the most famous one in ancient age)
Russia:Military Tradition(Cossack riders really improve Russia from a poor,backward civ)
Scandinavia:Map Making(Pity we can't build a long boat to carry a berserk army!Well we found New Foundland before the damned Christians!)
Spain:Astronomy(Conquistadors rock in real history)
Sumerian:Alphabet(Inventor of Alphabet--Sumerian)
Zulu:I could say it Bronze Working though?

[Juka The Dumb]

wow,thats a lot of words up there.

[Tomoyo]

Sumerian:Alphabet(Inventor of Alphabet--Sumerian)

I thought the Phoenicians invented the alphabet. The Sumerians invented the wheel.

[Yuri2356]

Originally Posted by Tomoyo

I thought the Phoenicians invented the alphabet. The Sumerians invented the wheel.

Hence the term "Phonetic."
Seems like a good Idea, though it may encourage some Bealining to try and reach you Civs Special Tech. Also, some people may stop using certain Civs because they don't like or use their special technology (Especialy the unnessecary ones) Perhaps to add to the value of the tech, we could tie in a Civ-Specific unit/improvment/effect that has something to do with it and the Civ reserching it?

[rhialto]

Originally Posted by plarq

Byzantine:Theology(Greek Catholic still in Russia and Serbia)

Don't let them hear you call them Catholic. I think they prefer to be called Orthodox. "Catholic" is reserved for the vatican heresy

Egypt:Wheel(How to build pyramid without wheeled mechanics)

huh?

England:Invention(They invented longbow)

I've always felt that longbows were placed with the wrong tech anyway. Invention doesn't fit my concept of what archery is. The Japanese were teh other great longbow users in history, but they don't have anything much from the time period I'd associate with the spirit of invention.

Persia:Philosophy(Zoroaster)

Make that monotheism. Zoroaster founded the world's first monotheistic religion after all.

Zulu:I could say it Bronze Working though?

How about Masonry or Construction? There is a famous archeological site called Great Zimbabwe after all.

[Tomoyo]

Hence the term "Phonetic."

[Yuri2356]

Originally Posted by Tomoyo

"Phonetic" meaning "Of sound."
Phonetic
Phoneograph
Telephone
Anglophone
and so on and so forth.

Perhaps I'm just seeing conections that don't exist.

[Tomoyo]

The Phon stem comes from the Greek word phonos, not Phoenician. Phoenician like Phoenix, maybe?

[rhialto]

Where do you think the Greeks got their word from?

[Aussie_Lurker]

Much SIMPLER solution is to have traits determine what tech FIELDS each civ is particularly adept at. For instance, seafaring civs will be much better at researching naval technologies like shipbuilding, navigation and the like, wheras religious civs will be better at researching cultural/social techs like Monotheism, polytheism and theology. Of course, this idea works EVEN BETTER if you can't pick specific techs to research, but simply put resources into the broad tech fields. Within this system, a civ with the appropriate trait would be more likely to get an SGL if it is the first civ to get the first tech from the related tech field for that era! Hope that makes sense.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[dh_epic]

Without getting into the details (Arabia is much more well known for its science than its religion, in spite of how we might come to view the remnants in this modern age -- I'd recommend Mathematics, Engineering, or even Currency) ...

This isn't such a bad idea.
Although it can be a sensitive one, more than just dishing out traits.

[plarq]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Lurker

Much SIMPLER solution is to have traits determine what tech FIELDS each civ is particularly adept at.

That will reduce Scientific trait's value

[Aussie_Lurker]

No it won't, Plarq, because Civs with the scientific trait would get an x% boost to the number of 'beakers' that each city produces per turn-beakers which are then assigned to the general tech fields. Also, scientific civs will still be more likely, on average, to score an SGL. Also, along with everyone else, scientific civs get a bonus to researching techs from the 'pure science' tech field.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Jon Shafer]

Who is to say the SCI trait will be included at all in CIV? Or SGLs?

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, no-one really, but I am merely putting forward a model for tech research as it would appear if the basic Civ3 engine was there (with traits etc!)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Zild]

This strikes me as quite a good idea...

That said, I'm not sure it's fair to dedicate Invention to the English because of longbows (I'm not even sure it's such a good example of the tech anyway, but that's a separate point). I'm of the understanding that it was really the Welsh who invented the longbow - and they don't like being called English!

I'm not entirely sure that electricity is best described as American, nor that it is the best example of American achievement, and I would have thought more Feudalism than Chivalry for Japan (you've got Chivalry twice there anyway...)

But don't take offense - truth is, I don't think the current UUs are that well thought-out, and it is just a game, after all! The most important thing is the idea, and this idea sounds good to me

[dh_epic]

Not a bad idea to assign meta-tags to techs, or break the tech tree up into trait groups so certain civs receive certain bonuses on groups of techs. But to me, the "scientific trait" wouldn't crumble the most, they could still receive an overall bonus that more than makes up for any one civilization's advantage in a particular field. It would be the "religious trait" that crumbles, because there are no new religious techs after Theology (if my memory serves me correctly).

[Xanthippus]

Greece:Polytheism(Greek Mythology rocks!Along with Temple of Artemis)

Maybe, but they didn't invent it. Polytheism came from the Middle East; in fact, the Greek Pantheon (much like the Roman), has the same 12 God structure (i.e. 12 major Gods, lots of sub-Gods) that the Sumerians had.

Philosophy is the Greek hallmark. They invented it, the Philosophical Golden Age was in Greece, and all the famous names are Greek (Plato, Socrates etc.) Hence, they should have Philosophy.

The Phon stem comes from the Greek word phonos, not Phoenician. Phoenician like Phoenix, maybe?

I do ancient Greek, and Phonos originally meant a Phoenician man. Later, it was changed to refer to sound, specifically sound from one's mouth.

Phoenician has nothing to do with Phoenix. Phoenix is an Egyptian word.

[Zild]

Just a sudden thought. I like to think that England has a number of inventions that could be attributed to it, but Radar strikes me as particularly suitable. One could also make a strong case for Advanced Flight (Frank Whittle and the Jet Engine), but there are definitely arguments against

The major problem with this - and any modern era techs - is that they really are not English achievements but British achievements. Don't want to anger the Scots

[PeterinScotland]

Originally Posted by Xanthippus

I do ancient Greek, and Phonos originally meant a Phoenician man. Later, it was changed to refer to sound, specifically sound from one's mouth.

Phoenician has nothing to do with Phoenix. Phoenix is an Egyptian word.

I'm interested in your claims here, as various other people mention this idea of Phonos coming from the Phoenicians. Can you back the following up with a reputable source available online?

1) Phonos originally meant a Phoenician man

2) Phoenician has nothing to do with Phoenix

3) Phoenix is an Egyptian word

So far I have looked at the Oxford English Dictionary and the Greek Dictionary in the back of Strong's Concordance.

Strong suggests that Phone comes from Phaino (to show) which he suggests comes from Phos (light).

Strong says Phoinike (Phoenicia) comes from Phoinix (palm-tree), which he says is of uncertain derivation.

OED gives no origin for Phone so far as I can see beyond the Greek word itself.

OED says Phoenicia comes from phoinix which they say probably refers to dark red (as in colour of skin) rather than purple (as in something the Phoenicians traded in).

OED give alternative possibilities that it might come from the name of a madder plant producing red dye, or from a word for carpentry that had existed in ancient Egyptian from at least 2300 BC.

Kind regards

Peter