Yet Another Deity Transition

[Sikoanalisis]

After reading almost every article I could find here, my game improved tremendously! Previously I had been stuck with AA wonder addiction and was only able to win at Warlord with only massive MA Knight-rushes. With the aid of Fanatics I won so overwhelmingly at Regent level that I decided to jump straight to Deity (on Vanilla).

So I'm alive, if that's anything. I'm Russians playing on a standard map, random settings, non-pangaea, heavy barbs.

I got such great map position that I feel almost guilty that I was unable to exploit it properly. My capital city started perfectly placed for a 6-turn settler factory, and my scout found a settler early on to give me a second city in time to cut off the northern expansion of my closest rival, the Germans. I have horses and 3 lux goods in my territory but no Iron. I'm currently in the early AD's languishing about 6 techs behind after being beaten to the GL by about 5 turns. Completed a successful Palace Jump to best locations but my 13 cities were mostly crippled by corruption for a long time in the early going. I'm currently earning about 55 gpt, with 31 of that free for trade.

However, my problems:

1. The AI will no longer accept my gpt for techs or contacts, even though I have NEVER broken any agreement.

2. I'm fricken behind in techs.

3. There is no Iron resource within my range and even if I wanted it I'd have to wage a massive war with archers and spearmen versus the Germans with swordsmen but not Knights (no horses).

I'm currently coming in 3rd of the 4 civs that i have contact with, with the Germans 4th.

Logically, I should abandon or restart the game. Are there any ways to salvage this game? And if I restart, what should I do differently? Should I prebuild earlier? space my cities out more to limit the corruption? (I'm using a 2-3 square spacing) I'm bound and determined to seek excellence at Deity and never play another level again. Any help would be appreciated, especially with regards to build order of the secondary cities and the order in which I should attempt to acquire techs.

Thanks in Advance.

[WackenOpenAir]

1. The AI will no longer accept my gpt for techs or contacts, even though I have NEVER broken any agreement.

To test your reputation, offer them 1 gpt for 10 gold. If they accept, your reputation is ok. If your reputation is not ok, you did brake a deal, it might be unintended and even unnoticed when for example barbs broke a trade route or something.
If your reputation is ok and they do not accept your gpt for techs, maybe you just don't have enough to afford the techs.

2. I'm fricken behind in techs.
Conquer the GL.
If you are close enough to be able to buy techs that you can sell to others who can offer you more techs or gpt for the bought tech, do so. Buying techs that you cannot sell again i don't recommend normally.

3. There is no Iron resource within my range and even if I wanted it I'd have to wage a massive war with archers and spearmen versus the Germans with swordsmen but not Knights (no horses).

space your cities so that you have 12 tiles for each of them to work.
Your city builds should be targeted at growth, settlers workers and granaries are all you need the first millenia. Build granaries before settlers in cities with high food and in cities where the production is too fast for your growth to keep up with in settler production. Other than that just settlers and workers. (few warriors in those cities that grow in 10 but need only 5 turns for a worker)

It is normal you will need a few games before being succesfull at deity. I also started straightaway at deity, lost my first 5 or 6 games or so. So just keep going I like your way to go for it like this instead of going up level by level.

[wilbill]

2. I'm fricken behind in techs.

That's one of the hardest things to get used to at higher levels. The AI researches faster than you can. You have to buy, steal, trade, capture the GL as suggested. Learn to research what the AI doesn't. There are lots of approaches. At Deity you usually play from behind for a large part of the game.
Regent to Deity is a pretty big jump. You're doing well to stay in the game as well as you are. Keep at it. You may or may not win, but you'll learn a lot.

[Bagatur]

I'm on the way to my first Deity game and first win Well, it was hard and still is hard. Two tricks were essential - capturing GL very late(they beat me with 5 turns) and stealing techs. When I got GL, I got everything including Nationalism, communism etc. If I took it one turn later I had to have Steam power also. As for stealing - best of the best of the best I ran completely no research, I always stole techs, exchanging them for others. Well, got several undesired wars, but who cares Being Dutch with no Iron, far after feudalism wasnt good. In fact I sold every single library and university I had, realising I,m not able to catch up in research...Maybe I'll build them later, when they'll cost me less turns. Still long way to go, but I'm stable and I become coldblooded thief

P.S. Cleopatra was about to beat me in ToE for 1 turn, but skilled bulgarian spy sabotaged production in Heliopolis

[WackenOpenAir]

Still, those are moreso last resorts IMO

You don't want your game to rely on a GL capture, and you don't want to rely on tech stealing.

Normally on deity you should very well be able to keep up with trading techs and getting some in peace deals now and then.

[Sikoanalisis]

Ok generally, in the early game, is it more intelligent to go after the most powerful or least powerful AI civ in a war?

[WackenOpenAir]

I always prefer to go after the AI that will give me most benefit when i conquer them. Beneficial to conquer is:

-The Pyramids
-The Great Library
-Resources
-Removing AI cultural influence near your cities.
-Removing AI cities on places you just failed to take during the expansion phase.
-Usefull green land

To stop one AI from becomming strongest, just try setting other AI's against him.

If other mentioned things are not important enough to force a decision, i will take the strongest unless he has stronger defenders than another civ.

[Mistfit]

Originally Posted by PhychoA

Ok generally, in the early game, is it more intelligent to go after the most powerful or least powerful AI civ in a war?

I'm not at near the level of many that have posted in this thread but I will comment on this.

I have found that it cannot be as plain and simple as weak or strong when deciding whom to attack first. There are many things that go into the decision making process.

1.) I never attack a civ early for no reason. In early games it is nealry always because; they are crowding my territory and I don't have any where else to settle, or they have a resourse/lux that I want.
2.) Level of play is a big deciding factor as well. On Emporer and higher early wars against the most powerful civ (without MA's) can be detrimential to your health and well being.
3.) Phoney wars against far away civ's is often a good way to slow down bigger civs if you can pull other closer civs into the battle.

Primarily what I am trying to say is IMHO do not start wars without a good reason and plan.

[WackenOpenAir]

Originally Posted by Mistfit

Primarily what I am trying to say is IMHO do not start wars without a good reason and plan.

A final goal of world domination can be reason enough, but only if you are strong enough.

[Sikoanalisis]

Ok thanks a lot. A significant problem in the Russia game is that the GL is located on another continent i have no knowledge of, and my known civs refuse to trade communications with me. I think a trade route was inadvertently broken or something.

[Sikoanalisis]

Also, sorry for double posting, but I started another game with Egypt and tried to build the pyramids on a lark because I had a very high-production area with a number of forests to harvest. I know this is bad strategy, but I wanted to see what would happen. Every few turns my turns left to build the wonder would INCREASE. What's up with that?

[zurichuk]

Originally Posted by Sikoanalisis

Also, sorry for double posting, but I started another game with Egypt and tried to build the pyramids on a lark because I had a very high-production area with a number of forests to harvest. I know this is bad strategy, but I wanted to see what would happen. Every few turns my turns left to build the wonder would INCREASE. What's up with that?

harvesting forests won't give the shields to a wonder, if anything they removed shields from the square the citizens were on hence the turn increase

[Bagatur]

I found its no that good to try to beat most powerfull civ in game first.
1. It takes lots of resources.
2. Denies u from getting benefits offering them luxuries and resources(if applicable, of course).

Well, it depends, but in my current epic, Ragnar is giving me hard time, whilst the others are getting more powerfull and powerfull. I even found myself forced to fight defensive war on one front and offensive on other. Interesting but boring.

Its all of course depends on situation, but this option must be taken in mind also.

I started another relaxing demogod game two days ago and I found instead of going to war with most powerfull(THE CHANCELLOR!(I like him powerfull!)) I can trade several lux with him at about 250+ gpt. I'm able to outresearch him badly(for him) so I posponed invasion. All those,I'm speaking for, are huge maps games, where I think, on deity, where 12 civs are present tech are just enourmosly expensive. Stealing them is more than twice cheaper.


I never played peacefull games, but seems I have to, just to estimate properly.

As for capturing GL and relying on stealing techs - last resort? Don't think so. having some money in cache whole the time and being able stealing one tech to exchange it for two or three, its good deal from my POV.

Beside this, capturing GL on huge archipelago maps is not always an option also. This I would call last resort. One of the reasons - if u have bad start(dont count starting cow), not being able to build banks hurts u big time. Both in research and money. To dogpile on most powerfull rival needs money and resources, not only the good idea of doing it

All these are hipothetical strategies in general situation. Speaking which is better and last resort will take place only on certain game.

[rysingsun]

behind in techs, in third place out of four ...

sounds pretty normal to me. honestly i think i should congratulate you for not being fourth of four. typically i catch up in techs somewhere around the time of ... rocketry?

my advice would be to play the game on. get used to being behind. and use every device at your disposal to maximize your gains. check the diplomacy screens often. keep enough cash to buy off allies in case you get into surprise wars. work on infrastructure. if building military units is going to be a hopeless way to survive a war then dont build military units. they wont save you anyway. build them later. work on infrastructure. dont go on mad conquests for territory that is of little value to you. do that later. dont build universities if you will have no chance even with them to beat anyone to a tech. build them later.

i suspect most of these things you know already or you wouldnt be doing so well in your current game. yes you are doing well. please dont quit this game because you will learn what a BAD game is soon enough. thats the one where after the expansion phase you have all of 6 cities.

i think one of the weaknesses of civ III is that the ai is pretty lame about taking out a player who is economically strong but militarily susceptible. they just go on letting this person build his banks his factories his coal plants ... and then right after the player has built up 60 cavalry in a handful of turns with his newly huge-producing cities only THEN the ai declares war. for this reason a player can be behind for most of the game and still pull off a domination victory in the end.

[budweiser]

One small point, You mentioned something about moving your scout (singular). Anytime you play an expansionist, you should build 2,3, or 4 scouts early instead of warriors so you can grab as many goodie huts and make as many contacts as you can right off. That will help you get established, get a few techs and learn the lay of the land.