SGOTM6 - Team RowAndLive

[Elmarae]

Though I see nothing wrong with. RoP with France and England. Move most of our forces to resources and Cities. and declare on both at once. Do this all in the same turn so that the AI doesn't get to use the benefit of the RoP.

To hell with our rep. We want to win

[jb1964]

The Save, 1445 AD

Turn 0 – 1395 AD
Switching some cavalry to banks to increase our revenues.
Peace w/ Joan for RoP (Rape!) and 720g. She would not part w/ any tech nor would she consider forfeiting a city. We could have gotten Espionage if we threw in some gold but we’ll never be able to generate the cash needed to make that tech worthwhile.
The GL becomes an Army.

IBT: Lots of French naval forces rolling around.

Turn 1 – 1400 AD
England leaves a GL standing alone in our territory. Man, I would love to bag this guy.
France is still commie and I doubt they’ll switch being at war w/ two other civs. Then again the Vikes and Carthage are not long for this world. I consider giving Ragnar iron but he won’t take it for nothing. I think our rep might be a tad bit tarnished.
The kitchen sink is floating towards France.
Scrub the back 40 for stray units no longer needed as MP’s or for barb patrol.
This might not have been kosher but I rush some settlers.

Trades: India will likely get Corp or Elect soon. We trade Elect for Esp, 110g and 15gpt. Nobody else will talk to us or they’re dirt poor and stupid. Like many of my relatives. Joan, Hammy and Liz are up plenty of techs.

Turn 2 – 1405 AD
France is still Commie.
Worker moves galore and still floating nearly everything to the beachhead.

IBT: France and Carthage make nice. Agedincum2 (English) flips to us.

Turn 3 – 1410 AD
See turn 2.

IBT: Hammy and Hannibal smoke the pipe.

Turn 4 – 1415 AD
Vikes are down to three cities.
See turn 2.

IBT: The English and Babs are killing each other on the high seas. The English have better boats.

Turn 5 – 1420 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 6 – 1425 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 7 – 1430 AD
See turn 2.

IBT: Vikings are dead at the hands of a saint. The French are building ToE.

Turn 8 – 1435 AD
France is no longer at war but is hanging onto the Commie government.
I have been popping many a cathedral and we’re ending this turn running a –2gpt at 0%/0%.
Lizzy will take an MPP for saltpeter but is currently embroiled in a war w/ Hammy.
We have 36 cavalry, 17 cannons, a cavalry army and a rifle at the beachhead. There are very few units left on the mainland. I would like to pick a fight, ok… backstab, Joan after she switches back to Demo but sitting on all these units and only adding 4, or so, a turn is probably losing ground for us.

Turn 9 – 1440 AD
See turn 2.

Turn 10 – 1445 AD
I now have had two crashes.
OK, France is still in commie.
MM’ed some cities putting out <20spt to just over.
We have added a few more troops to the stack.
I’ll glean the cities for potential pops.
Treasury is at 1,468g w/ +12gpt. Keep putting markets and banks in the core cities.
Culture is at 91,858. Not sure about the ramp rate.
France’s culture is at 60,932.

The Save, 1445 AD

[rrau]

Nice turns. And a nice set up for Elmarae

[edit] At least I think she's up next.

[jb1964]

Expect a riot here and there as the ICS cities are finally getting a bit touchy about all the human sacrifices.

I hate it when that happens.

Give 'em heck Elmarae!

[RowAndLive]

Roster -
Durkz -
MOTH -
rrau - well done
jb1964 - keeping the sink in the right place
Elmarae - UP
RowAndLive - On Deck

[Elmarae]

Oh goody... I get to win the game if I can wipe France's nose. Our gain should be in the region of 1k per turn so by turn 7 or 8 we should win this if I can knock 10k off france.

Btw how do you tell that France's Culture is?

[RowAndLive]

I would guess through Mapstat, though I don't personally use it.

I'm hoping for some magic from you, Elmarae, as that's about the only way to keep from winning the spoons from Ivan (assuming this his game won't be dragged out by a high French or English culture). X-Team may be the only one to actually hit 100k without going over.

I see that Elmarae has signed up for SGoTM7, and shows a willingness to rejoin Team Row. I must apologize for my abysmal lack of ability to really take part in SG6, and for a total lack of leadership as regards the victory conditions. Unfortunately I had NO prior experience with 100k. I had originally planned on dropping from SG7 so as to not hold you back as a team. However, if there is a desire to keep Team Row alive, then I am willing to stay, and commit to making more playing time. Please advise your status here regarding SG7, and don't feel pressured to go one way or the other. If it does not work out, then I will still ask to see you all again in R&L04. Thank you.

[rrau]

There's a signup for the next game? *goes to read threads*

[Elmarae]

Will razing Frances cities drop her culture total? Or does the total remain there? I thought it was a sum of the culture total of all cities so if you lose the city you lose the culture.

[rrau]

I think the culture remains until the last Frenchman is dead.

[edit] The next sgotm is always war deity!!!!!!!!. Umm.... I've never won a deity game or played an always war game. If there's enough interest to go in as a team, I'll play, but otherwise I'll probably sit that one out.

[jb1964]

Elmarae, when you start capturing and/or razing French cities let us know the affect on culture.

BTW, I was using MapStat to get the culture numbers for the French.

[DJMGator13]

lurker's comment: I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.

[Tubby Rower]

Originally Posted by DJMGator13

lurker's comment: I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.

lurker's comment: This is correct. Incidentally the bit about the Fraxis score is a little different than how Gator described it. The Fraxis score is an average of each and every played turn's score. That's the major reason why in order to do well in xOTM, it is important to get to just under the domination limit as quick as possible regardless of vicotry condition. Best bet for speeding up the victory is to wipe them completely out. Razing vs. keeping doesn't matter too much except wonder cities since all culture buildings are destroyed upon capture. Good Luck!!!

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by DJMGator13

lurker's comment: I think rrau is correct about the culture. It's like the Firaxis score, once earned it stays. You will slow their cpt rate by destroying their cultural buildings but not reduce their overall culture, until they are eliminated.

Culture and Firaxis score do not behave quite the same.

Culture is the sum of culture per turn over the game. If a city is lost its culture per turn ceases to contribute to the civs cpt, but culture per turn can never go negative, and as long as the capital exists there's at least +1cpt from the Palace. So culture can stop growing (settler on a boat), or drop to zero when the civ is exterminated, but can never decrease for a live civ.

Firaxis score is the average of points scored for all turns. If you start losing territory or citizens your per turn score will decrease. If it drops enough then eventually the average, and therefore the Firaxis score, will start to decrease. We saw this effect in the SGOTM3 game results. Here are some graphs showing Firaxis scores declining at the end of the game.

[Tubby Rower]

Originally Posted by AlanH

and as long as the capital exists there's at least +1cpt from the Palace.

I have seen civs have 0 cpt for extended periods of time. Does the capital have to be the original capital (or at least one where the palace has been built)?

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by Tubby Rower

I have seen civs have 0 cpt for extended periods of time.

How did you measure it?

[Tubby Rower]

lurker's comment: Via Mapstat. I realize rumor has it that it is sometimes off in it's calculations, but I once had a civ reduced to OCC and it didn't accumulate culture any culture.

I went back and looked at a couple of saves and the civ actually reduced it's culture total. Again via MapStat. The (+xxx) displayed (+0) but if you look at the culture total it actually goes down by about 100 cuture points.

[mad-bax]

People using Mapstat in various teams reported total culture dropping from time to time. This hasn't been reported with CivAssist.

[DJMGator13]

I did not know that Firaxis score could be lost. Learned something new. I would say I've not experienced it, but since I own a Spoon from the game Alan was so nice to reference, I'd be lying.

BTW, that settler on a boat is evil sometimes. In a prior xOTM I had a city flip to the settler on about that had been adrift for several hundred years. So I recaptured the city, still couldn't find the settler on a boat and after a bunch of turns I had another city flip.

We now return this thread back to Team Row

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by Tubby Rower

lurker's comment: Via Mapstat. I realize rumor has it that it is sometimes off in it's calculations, but I once had a civ reduced to OCC and it didn't accumulate culture any culture.

I went back and looked at a couple of saves and the civ actually reduced it's culture total. Again via MapStat. The (+xxx) displayed (+0) but if you look at the culture total it actually goes down by about 100 cuture points.

I'll just follow up on this and then drop out of R&Ls thread and let them get on with their game. To avoid giving spoiler data, Mapstat tries to emulate the result you would get by pixel counting on the F8 screen and using your own known culture from F5 for each turn to estimate that of other civs. Pixel counting is a rather blunt instrument, and the graph is showing relative culture, not absolute. Rounding errors are very likely to produce distorted results, with apparent negative cpt from time to time. I would also be very surprised if this technique could tell the difference between zero cpt and +1 cpt.