SGOTM6 - Team RowAndLive

[RowAndLive]

Originally Posted by jb1964

I can only assume that R&L wants to place me between the ladies to act as a buffer to their otherwise unchecked bloodlust.

Yes! That was exactly it! Us meek builder types need those fierce ladies between us.

Nicely played out Durkz & MOTH. A big OUCH on the Mongols. Please note that by having horsemen, they are also up HBR. Sounds like a pile o' GH for them. We'll have to check the points graph.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (which is likely), but IIRC, irrigating wheat serves no purpose in despotism. We are stuck in despotism, therefore mine the wheat.

I much prefer RCP at 4 in this case, as a few of the 3 sites were on BGs.

[rrau]

What do you think of the forest NE of the wheat for the first city. It's only drawback is it misses coast by 1 tile so we'll have a couple coastal tiles that are pretty useless. On the build order: worker first then granary OR worker, settler, granary? Or does someone have other suggestions. I'd like to get a third city out soon to start a rax and then vet warriors (maybe some archers as it sounds like barbs could be brutal)

[jb1964]

Regarding the wheat...

Food Production... Base + Wheat + Irrigate = Total, Despot (Total -1)

Plains (1+2+1=4) 3
Grass/BG (2+2+1=5) 4
Flood (3+2+1=6) 5

An irrigated wheat on any tile is a gain in total food under despotism.

[jb1964]

Man, it looks like the Mongols were started out w/ about 5 free techs. We need to get what we can from the Chinese and make the other contacts on our pangea ASAP.

Just another requirement to overconstrain the problem at hand.

[Elmarae]

Rings
3 a-c :There are too few locations in ring 3 unless we do the corners as well but then that would be too crowding on the capital.

4 a-i : I like all those locations especially 4f & 4e which would give us use of the cow unimproved though. Not sure if 4g & 4f would give us use of the game without border expansion. 4c and 4d is a matter of choice. 4a and 4b both miss the coast. Most of the 4 sites are on rivers.

5 a-d : Not as many sites, ahh noticed I missed one site N of 4a, and the hill between 5a & 6b.

6 a-d : Also looks poor possible sites. Though 6d sits on tundra wll access to a few grassland squares.

7 a-g : Some nice sites. 7a gives us the goats. We could either do 2 cities at 7c & 7e or one at 7d. 7f or 7g give us access to the dye after border expansion.

So my vote is for 4 & 7 ring.

Originally Posted by Row&Live

Yes! That was exactly it! Us meek builder types need those fierce ladies between us.

I'm not fierce! I have building tendacies. How else can I afford the military I like to use to wage war?
If you say I am fierce again I will have to show you how good I am with a sword...

[MOTH]

I vote for rings 4 and 7.

We have 1 settler now: I vote location 4b.

We are going to get 1 more settler during rrau's turns (on turn 38): I vote for 4f.

We are also going to get 2 settlers during jb's turns (turns 43 and 47): 4h and then 4a.

Not to get the horse to far ahead of the cart, but there will be 3 during Elmarae's turns (51,55,59): 7a, 4g, 4c

As for builds, I think:
4a should build a barracks and then warriors and ocasional workers.
4f should build a temple as soon as it has 10 sheilds and pop2 via pop-rush (to expand and get Game and Cow). Then work towards being our second 4-turn settler pump (cow and irrigated game should be 5 surplus food).

[rrau]

preflight (2550bc)

move settler towards Elmarae's spot 4b.
Trade China Pottery and CB for BW + 10g
Start IW at max

ibt: zzz

turn 1 (2510bc)

MOTH & R&L move. MOTH ends next to barb camp. Durkz starts mining.

ibt: a dark red border appears taking the cow that was planned for our next city site. Barb is heading towards our city.

turn 2 (2470bc)

Attacked barb camp with MOTH and he died
Switch Entremont from temple to archer to save our workers.

turn 3 (2430bc)

not much

turn 4 (2390bc)

archer leaves to hunt barbs. Settler started.

turn 5 (2350bc)

We now have contact with India, but can't buy anything.

ibt: The mongol warrior attacked the 2 barbs heading towards our town and killed one and then the barb attacked him and died. the Mongol warrior is now elite.

turn 6 (2310bc)

Send our regular archer towards the barb hut.

ibt: Contact with us was sold to a lot of people

turn 7 (2270bc)

Still can't afford anything
attack another barb spawned by the hut with the archer. Archer wins, but hurt.

turn 8 (2230bc)

start settler to 4h since 4f is not going to get us the cow.

turn 9 (2190bc)

attack and destroy barb camp and get 25g.
We can finally afford to buy IW from India for 90g (cheapest). We have iron nearby.

turn 10 (2150bc)

archer rests. Settler moves. MM Entremont.


Notes:

1. after archer rests, see if he can meet the dark red AI. From the list of the ones we don't know, I think it's Japan (maybe get some 2fer trades).

2. I think Minimum science (or even no science - I'm in an emperor level sg with no research and I'm surprised by how easy it is to stay caught up) and buying techs or using pointy stick research is the way to go.

3. If we go with min science we can buy Masonry from India for 19g + 3 gpt so we can start the pyramids somewhere. (1 civ building colossus and 2 building oracle)

4. We're down at least Masonry, Alphabet, Wheel, Mysticism by all known civs. (if not more)

5. Since I built an archer in place of the temple, should we switch the current settler to a temple?

6. We're one turn into researching Masonry at minimum (I forgot to switch it after buying IW as on solo games, I set cascades of techs) If we want to switch to Alphabet, it's not that much of a loss.

Firaxis: 109
Jason: 37

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sg..._BC2150_01.SAV

[jb1964]

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

[MOTH]

Originally Posted by rrau

5. Since I built an archer in place of the temple, should we switch the current settler to a temple?

Let's build a warrior after the current settler finishes and keep him in Entremont as MP. This should get us back to size 4 before starting the next settler and the MP should help with happiness management. We'll wait to build the temple until we have more cities in place that can share our food bonuses.

[MOTH]

I just took a look at the save via CivAssist. It looks like we are on track to becoming the 4-turn settler factory even without building the temple or warrior. If CivAssist is telling me the truth, then we are at size 4 with 14 shields in the bank.

We will always work the Game and Wheat for +5 food. This means we need to MM after we grow each time. Don't stress if you miss the MM. It will delay the next settler 1 turn as we may need to grow back from size 3.

Turn 40: grow to size 5 - +7 to 21 shields with forest on growth.
Turn 41: size 5 - +6 to 27 shields. MM for food.
Turn 42: grow to size 6 - +8 shields to 35 with forest on growth. Build settler.
Turn 43: size 4 - +6 sheilds, Game Mine finishes. MM for food.
Turn 44: grow to size 5 - +8 shields to 14 with forest on growth.
Turn 45: size 5 - +7 shields to 21 MM for food.
Turn 46: grow to size 6 - +9 shields to 30 with forest on growth. Build settler.
Repeat 43-46 forever and ever.

[RowAndLive]

I vote 4b, 4f, 4a, 4h in that order.

Thoughts:

Q2. I think Minimum science (or even no science - I'm in an emperor level sg with no research and I'm surprised by how easy it is to stay caught up) and buying techs or using pointy stick research is the way to go.
A: I'd say min on the most expensive one, not no research. It's too early in the game, and we're currently too small to only be amassing the cash for buying techs. Right now we need settlers.

Q3. If we go with min science we can buy Masonry from India for 19g + 3 gpt so we can start the pyramids somewhere. (1 civ building colossus and 2 building oracle)
A: I like this idea.

Q5. Since I built an archer in place of the temple, should we switch the current settler to a temple?
A: No. Temples aren't as impartnat as cities at this point. We can fight the culture wars later if someone fills a gap. In that case, our larger size will allow faster temples & libs, thus flips.

Q6. We're one turn into researching Masonry at minimum (I forgot to switch it after buying IW as on solo games, I set cascades of techs) If we want to switch to Alphabet, it's not that much of a loss.
A: Buy Masonry & research Alpha.

[Elmarae]

Another thing to be constantly aware of (this is mostly for me) is because we won't ever have a government that can cash rush the only reason we will need gold is to buy techs, which means once we get a lead in the tech race we can focus our sliders on lux and science with little gpt.

Should we concentrate on the fastest route to Communism?

[MOTH]

We will also need cash for upgrading warriors to Gallic Swordsmen. This will mainly be the case if we build a warrior factory and leave it disconnected from the iron/roadnet. I think location 7c and 7e could be used for this purpose. Depending on corruption I think each would be a 2 turn warrior factory at size 4 or 5 with a barracks and temple. We might also squeeze an ocasional worker out as well.

I think we might be able to finish the game before Communism even matters. By the time we get to communism we should have so many ICS cities that the spread around corruption will result in nearly all cities being totally corrupt. I think we want the tech pace to be as slow as possible so as to prolong the usefulness of our UU. Still, we don't want to be behind too much, but the pointy stick should help in this regard.

[Durkz]

GS in PTW costs 50 s and warrior cost 10 shields. how much 40 shields upgrade costs in gold.

[Durkz]

i tested the upgrade and we need 80 gold each (warrior to swordmen costs 40 gold). so 13 GS would cost us 1040 gold that's a lot of money in AA. maybe we should build GS directly. .

[MOTH]

As for the settlers during jb's turns. My votes are as follows:

current settler: 4h

turn 43: 4a (lets get the iron in our borders).

turn 47: 7a

After that I want to settle 4e and 4f and put on a culture push. With loads of luck the city near the cow will flip to us and we can start expanding in that direction. An alternate plan would be to declare a phoney war on whatever nation that is and eventually try to get that city (or another) in a peace deal.

[jb1964]

Team, I have a problem. I downloaded the file, unzipped it, renamed it SGOTM, and I still don't see any goats.

[EDIT: Got the goats. User error and premature panic.]

[jb1964]

Turn 0 – 2150 AD
Umm, that Mongol warrior can have our settlers for lunch should he choose.
Bought Masonry from India for 3gpt and 19g.

Turn 1 – 2110 AD
Mohacks worker to warrior
Worker to wheat
Settler to 4h (as it’s one tile away)
There are two civs we don’t know; Carthage and France.
India will sell Alpha for 4gpt and 6g. It cash straps us at the moment but we’ll be building fast so I’m going to buy.

Turn 2 - 2070 AD
Found Lugdunum – warrior
Screwed up left and right so far. Way too many distractions and too much to read through and reabsorb in the thread. Changed tech to Math after leaving it on Wheel for a turn. Never MM’ed anything in the capitol so I’m off the official schedule.

Turn 3 – 2030 AD
Forgot to turn back entertainment so there’s another screw up.

Turn 4 – 1990 AD
I'm sure I blew something on this turn as well.

Turn 5 – 1950 AD
Mongol warrior blocking founding of 4a. Will loiter for a turn.

Turn 6 – 1910 AD
Popped a hut w/ R&L and it was deserted.
Moved to 4a.

Turn 7 – 1870 AD
Entremont - settler to settler, MM for growth in 2
Lughead - warrior to warrior.
Found Camulodunum – warrior

Turn 8 – 1830 AD
Babs finished the Oracle and have started on the Pyramids.
Doubled up workers finish road to silks so peeps in capitol are happy.
Switched Mohacks to Pyramids as I now remember this was one objective mentioned. If this doesn’t work for the rest of the team turn it into a granary.

Turn 9 – 1790 AD
Workers to mine a BG below Lughead.
Other worker finishes road/irrigation of wheat and moves to road towards other wheat.

Turn 10 – 1750 AD
Found Richborough on 4f – worker

[rrau]

Do we want to move the pyramids to Lugdunum? I thought Mohacs is supposed to be another settler pump. It should be switched back to granary if so. Although looking at our cities, we really don't have a good town to build the pyramids in. I just suggested Lugdunum because there are already workers in the area to improve the terrain.

Also, Rickborough needs to build a warrior before its worker.

I think Camulodum should finish the warrior, build a worker, then rax, then warriors.

What's everyone else's thoughts?

[RowAndLive]

Richborough is more of a shield city at this point, but Lugdunum is close, and is more defensible. I vote for Lugdunum. I also agree on the Richborough warrior. Haven't looked at Camulodunum enough to say yet.

Elamrae is UP.
R&L is On Deck.