Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

I'll get on to "the borders right away"...

blitzkrieg80 said:

umm... sorry, one more thing- I think the Athenians should have their title as strategos too =oP archon is cool, but it's vague, isn't it? or is it actually an office held in the democracy? From what i was reading all i could gather about the few real offices were the generals... anyone know better?

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The 10 Archons of Athens were their highest magistrates during Democracy, somewhat similar to the consuls. They were chosen by fate (a fortune game with notes IIRC). I'd still keep the Greek names (Tyrannus, Strategus, Basileus and Arhon(us)?, in their Latinized form (Aion, Ciceronian?) if you will)

About the movement factor of Funditores, you're right. It is worth it and it has been settled.

captain beaver said:

I wasn't talking about the Limitanei with 2 moves but the comitatenses.

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I know. I always mistake the two of them. I guess I was talking about them too .

Here's the best I can come up with on such a short notice. I suggest placing powerfull HN lethal land, 12 bombard, 6 ROF Sarmatian Raiders or something in Roxolanii. Bombard range maximum 2 or else they'll hit Durostorum and the limes there. Once you decide Sarmizegetusa is not worth to hold on to, Porolissum will be abandoned and probably Tibiscum too. They should appear around 275AD. The player could still hold on to them but they will be a (historical) nuissance.

Basic changes in Dacia: two rivers instead of one: Maris (west) and Alutus (east) - Latin names. Barbarians should easily mop up between the two (in reality they have the same source but for gamesake they're split up). Since the Danube limes is too long I'd settle for the combined Alutus and Danube border. Still no Dacian city included and a shorter, more defensible limes with a minimum of 75% bonus (river and forest). All Danube cities situated on Great River Terrain. Introduced just 3 strategic Ancestral Forests near Porolissum but quite annoying . Changed Durostorum and Tomis settings a bit. Placed some swamp south of Tibiscum. Should stimulate a withdrawal.

The west seems fine as it is: just replaced some grassland with Great River terrain. The Agri Decumates area has 2 limes lines. The weakest point in the limes is there with no bonus at all. The Barbs should get an invitation through there and you should massacre all you can . Of course once they're too many the ambush will turn (hopefully) into a mass invasion. I reached Constantine with my old game and I can say it's better to garisson just strongpoint sections of the limes and let them flood through the rest, surround them on plains and kill them like the dogs that they are. While you still can...

blitzkrieg80 said:

Egyptian - Pharaoh

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Considering that Egypt's ruling stratum was Graeco-Macedonian during the period from the scenario's start to the Roman conquest, basileus would seem more appropriate.

In any case, the English "pharaoh" would look incongruent among the native titles you suggested for the rest. The Ancient Egyptian form was, modulo spelling and transliteration conventions, was per-aa.

Basileus is simply Greek for "king" and it wasn't known in Latin before the Byzantine era, so if you go for the titles-in-latin option, it should be replaced by Rex. Pharao was not known in Latin, so Regina is the title for Cleopatra. Archon, Strategus and Tyrannus however, being specific terms, were used in Latin as Greek loanwords.

Hey, thanks, Last Conformist! I didn't even think about looking into it, but you're totally right. I knew you guys had some expertise you were holding back on us ;oP

Per-Aa it is!!

Aion, thanks for the info on Latin titles, too, I wasn't sure if some of those transferred over... BTW, I think many of the civilizations with Tribal Council should have Regulus and not Rex, because of the important difference between royalty and leadership and ACTUAL monarchy

so I've changed both my native and my Latin list, based on suggestions =o) I still vote for native titles, though

The Monarch - well done! I will follow most of it. The idea is to prepare the update once the SG has reached that stage. I wwant to see by myself how the game behave with the current settings. Thanks!

Cleopatra was certainly known as a queen in the Roman world, and it is all about having the roman perspective reflected in the titles. Regina it should be then.

*Curiousity question for anyone who is knowledgeable on it/the Latin- what is THE term for general? I know general in English came from Latin, "Generalis?" but it seems that the Romans didn't use that term in that way so much? I know "Dux" can mean warleader, general and later governor, but also as mentioned by Aion, the Romans took "Strategus" from the Greeks... so... What is the general/common "General" term/title in Latin, used by the Romans, which is separate from offices in the Republic, or are the titles for generals intrinsically tied to the offices, like Dictator, Consul, Imperator?

Side note, Pink, maybe you should use mostly Latin titles, see my new list on the previous page, possibly supplemented with those titles you like that are ethnic, or change some like Numidians to Rex, since I have it as Regulus because of the Tribal government... A lot of the Celtic titles are guesswork, so I would feel more comfortable with the Latin perspective as much as I like the original terms... I think the Persian ethnic term would be good to keep, since it would signify the dynastic switchover to the Parthians, and their unique emperor-like position... maybe Reiks too for the Goths and Khagan for the Scythians, since they're not as obscure as the Celtic/IndoEuropean words, and most importantly, they represent the truly unique concept those cultures had of their governments, which was more imperial and less like a monarchy, whether the Romans recognized it at the time or not... For example: The Goths became composed of many different peoples, who were accepted as Goths, just as the Allied peoples of Rome became known as Romans, because those people fought for the cause of the namesake and integrated themselves... Kings became vassals of a "King of Kings" aka Emperor... and since we don't want to use the title Imperator too early out of context, the ethnic terms fit, imo. Feedback is appreciated, because obviously I am all over the place with my feelings on the subject

Np, Pink. Blitz, didn't Imperator use to mean general? Aion, weren't the Spartan kings called Basileos? I think the Greeks are a different branch. Although you might want to go for Rex for the Iberians, Dacians, Pontians and the rest, Basileus still seems like a good idea for Philippus. Rex Philippus just doesn't seem right to my ears... Same for Antiochus.

On a totally different subject - The position of the Stonehenge resource seems to be way off. Is there a reason it's placed in southern Wales?
Here's a map of the exact location.
"Stonehenge! Where the demons live, and they DO live well."
Spinal Tap, anyone?

My bad, I visited Stonehenge 15 years ago, it seems my geography was still rather vague then.

Are you sure it was Stonehenge? just kidding

There was stones, a green hill, and a crappy grey sky over it. Must have been it par Toutatis!

pinktilapia said:

- My intentions, as underlined by the pedia, was to make Roman late cavalry the ruling unit! Having never played the late game, it is hard for me to realize how (un)effective they are. If I understand right, the Eques Legionarus should get no HP penalty. That would do?

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All the units they come up against have high defensive bombardment, which is a problem for the low hp units.

I put 2 of them in an army, but at a max of 8pts, and only a defense of 4 care must be taken to make *sure* the army won't *try* to defend since it will very likely lose if engaged. How about also raising the defense to 5 to give them hope of at least being able to defeat the enslaved units?

blitzkrieg80 said:

*Curiousity question for anyone who is knowledgeable on it/the Latin- what is THE term for general? I know general in English came from Latin, "Generalis?" but it seems that the Romans didn't use that term in that way so much? I know "Dux" can mean warleader, general and later governor, but also as mentioned by Aion, the Romans took "Strategus" from the Greeks... so... What is the general/common "General" term/title in Latin, used by the Romans, which is separate from offices in the Republic, or are the titles for generals intrinsically tied to the offices, like Dictator, Consul, Imperator?

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The closest ancient counterpart would appear to be tribunus militum.

The modern title comes from French expressions like "capitain général" (unsure about spelling), signifying a captain who gets to boss the other captains around.

I know magister peditum and magister equitum was used in Constatine time as head of the infantry and head of the cavalry.

For Dacia, I have seen the_Monarch job (which is quite good BTW) but the best would be simply to redesign the map. Dacia's borders were far longer than the Danube as it was surrounded on 3 sides.

Redesign a part of the map, you mean right ? I plan to make some change to make Dacia much more difficult to defend, and replace the fertile grassland terrain with a great river terrain, nothing more. Or is there other change you would like to see somewhere else?

BTW, this means disease will occur much more regularly (as in the past) as I will have to reassign it to grassland rather than fertile grassland.

Ok for slightly raising to defense of the cavalry, although, frankly, I doubt it will make anu difference if it is caught in the open by an ugly barbarian horde...

NO! No more def to cavalry. More hps . Why lose them defending...

pinktilapia said:

Redesign a part of the map, you mean right ? I plan to make some change to make Dacia much more difficult to defend, and replace the fertile grassland terrain with a great river terrain, nothing more. Or is there other change you would like to see somewhere else?

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Of course ! The rest of the map is fine. Only Dacia and the Danube should be redesigned as to make more limes to defend if you keep Dacia rather than abandonning it. The Danube borders should be shorter (less tiles to defend).
Shouldn't it be something like this :
aaaXXXXXXXXXXXXX
aaaXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaX
aaaXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaX
aaaXaaaaDaciaaaaaaX <--- Dacia Limes
aaaXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- Danube Limes

BTW, "a" means nothing. For some reason, I needed to put them there or the picture would have made no sense. The X are the Limes

Yes, which means the Moutains of Dacia (Carphates) must be crossable by all barbarians. Prpblem is that is impossible with the current settings. Maybe, something like this:

aaMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
aaMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
aaMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
aaMAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXAAM
aaMAAXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaXAAM
aaMAAXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaXAAM
aaMAAXaaaaDaciaaaaaaaXAAM <--- Dacia Limes
aaMAAXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaXAAM
aaMAAXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaXAAM
aaMAAXaaaaaaaaaaaaaaXAAM
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- Danube Limes

Where the A is a ancestral forest, M the Carphates (with a few passes)