When is size 1 city captured or razed?

[mikezang]

I wonder to know when or which condition such city is captured or razed.
I thought all size 1 cities will be razed if I got it, but sometimes, I also captrued such city and it is not capital.

[thescaryworker]

If it has a wonder, it won't be raised.

[mikezang]

Originally Posted by thescaryworker

If it has a wonder, it won't be raised.

raised? razed?
Only this case?

[SJ Frank]

A city will be auto-razed if:

- it is size 1, AND
- it has not yet expanded its border, AND
- that one citizen isn't yours (i.e. capturing back your old city won't result in razing)

Auto-razing tend to happen when the AI is in despotism, because they like to whip their city to size 1 as your troops approaches. Republic and Monarchy use cash rushing, so once AIs reach those government, the auto-razing generally stops.

If a city contains the palace or a wonder, then it has culture, which means that its border has probably expanded, that's why they are not auto-razed. It is possible to get a city that has just finished a wonder, thus hasn't reached 10 cultures to expand its border, however it is almost impossible to find such a city at size 1, so wonder cities never gets razed.

[Grille]

That is correct except for one minor point, which may explain some (more or less rare) instances of size-1 towns being *not* razed although they'd fit into the list above.

Originally Posted by SJ Frank

- that one citizen isn't yours (i.e. capturing back your old city won't result in razing)

To be more precise, the citizen's nationality must be identical with the current town owner's nationality.
If the citizen is not yours but neither your enemy's, you keep the town!

I've been wondering about some weird instances when the AI captured (hence not razed!) a size one town from me (w/o any expansion ever) which I expected to get autorazed. Surprise, I had captured the town before from a third civ, starved it down...

I finally made a test in MP mode, see pics below. Babylon just made a town out of a Greek settler and, despite of expecting an autoraze, a Russian warrior could march in afterwards. It doesn't matter if Greece is still in the game or not btw.
[tbh, I dunno if Russia must not be technically at war with Greece... may the town gets razed if Greece is still in the game and Russia is at war with Greece as well...]

side note: I've changed the first expansion level to 80 points and a size one town and citzen/owner nationality-identy with <80 culture points does get razed when captured. So it's clearly based on expansion, not on points - that wasn't the case with some earlier patch.

[Swiss Bezerker]

Youve got alot of gold there

[citizen001]

Debug Mode/Trainer?

[Grille]

Adverse reaction after Hammurabi and Alexander got their medication...

It's just a MP-biq I had used for other testing purposes before which came in handy here, too. Originally, the biq only featured two (human controled) civs. There's some tweaks in the scenario properties: player1 and player2 get republic at start, all techs, embassies, a ton of gold and additional starting units (settlers and MGLs). The game rules were untouched then.

For the raze test, I changed the culture rules (1st expansion @80cp) and put it in a third human civ (slot filled by Russia in this case) which starts with the default (no tweaks). The gold, the settlers and republic (pl1,2) are just nice when you want to get a foreign settler quickly: so Babylon captured a Greek settler (=2 Greek workers), plopped a native town with an own additional settler, joined 1 Greek worker there and gold-rushed the missing shields to settler production @0fpt: town abandoned and Babs now had a 'Greek' settler to make a new town with a foreign resident ('foreign' from both Russia's and Babylon viewpoint).

Bottom line is that you could capture a size one town. If you know that a town you have an eye on switched ownership recently, chances are the (lone) citizen hasn't been assimilated yet. So you wouldn't care about the AI keeping it on size 1 by whipping every newly born own citizen.

[Tatran]

Originally Posted by SJ Frank

If a city contains the palace or a wonder, then it has culture, which means that its border has probably expanded, that's why they are not auto-razed. It is possible to get a city that has just finished a wonder, thus hasn't reached 10 cultures to expand its border, however it is almost impossible to find such a city at size 1, so wonder cities never gets razed.

After bombarding Barcelona to size 1,it was auto-razed when captured,
although it had a wonder (Bach).Sumeria captured Barca from Spain and
I captured it from them.

[Ginger_Ale]

That city has no culture because you captured it from someone who captured it.

[Xerol]

Does it necessarily have to have expanded (to 10 culture) or does it just have to have SOME culture, period? That's the only thing I was unsure about.

[Tomoyo]

I think in vanilla it was 10 culture, while in C3C, it was any culture. Haven't confirmed the C3C one, though.

[Grille]

It has to be an expansion in C3C, i.e. at least 10 points local culture w/ standard rules.
(you can easily test-check by modding expansion rules)
AFAIK the 'any culture' thing was realated to an earlier PTW patch, although I'm not sure if it really worked that way.

@Tatran
Since I'm still sure about the nationality thing, I'd be interested if (after the bombing) the lone citizen of Barca was a Sumerian or of other origin.
In case it was indeed a Sumerian and since it had no Sumerian border expansion, it should be auto-razed.
(not razed, if it was not a Spanish citizen - assuming the different nationality theory is valid)

[Tatran]

Originally Posted by Grille

Since I'm still sure about the nationality thing, I'd be interested if (after the bombing) the lone citizen of Barca was a Sumerian or of other origin.
In case it was indeed a Sumerian and since it had no Sumerian border expansion, it should be auto-razed.
(not razed, if it was not a Spanish citizen - assuming the different nationality theory is valid)

It's hard to tell what the origin was of the two clowns in Barcelona.
The espionage action didn't give the origin.
In 1910 Barcelona was also size 2 with clowns (no saves between 1910-1963),after capturing Barca,the only citizen was Sumerian.

[Grille]

AFAIK it should tell the origin when you move the mouse over each citizen, just in the same fashion as the 'shields produced' is shown in that investigation city screen of Barca (unless that doesn't work with specialists during an investigation).

Of course I had messed the content in the brackets of my earlier posting by tricking myself with two negations....

(not razed, if it was not a Spanish citizen - assuming the different nationality theory is valid)

It should say "not razed if it was not a *Sumerian* citizen..."
So if Sumeria captured the town from Spain before and the remaining lone citizen had not been assimilated by Sumeria yet, I guess you would have grabbed Barca and its nice wonder at size one (and w/o expansion).