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Old Apr 06, 2005, 11:05 PM   #1
Domandest
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HOLY JIHAD! Advantages of the Religious-Militaristic Civ!

HOLY JIHAD! The Great Power Of the Religious-Militaristic Civs
A User's Guide to Taking Over the World*
By Domandest

For some, beauty in Civ III is getting immensely wealthy from trade. For others, it's about getting eons ahead in tech. For still others, it's about being beloved and winning a diplomatic victory.

Then, there are those, like me, who are sick of this wussy crap. For us, beauty is in simply bringing as much of the map as possible under the color of our civ! We megalomaniacs revel in our own glory as we watch during the replay as vast swaths of land get gobbled up by our civ's color, as other civs recede and ultimately disappear forever.

Admit it: this is you! Maybe you've really always wanted to grab as much territory as possible, but always find yourself thinking about reputation reprecussions, controling hostile populations, overexpansion, unproductive fringe cities, war weariness, etc.
Fahhgitaboutit! With the RELIGIOUS-MILITARISTIC (R-M) CIV, under DESPOTISM, these problems fade into utter irrelevance. You will be free to concentrate the entire time on 100% territorial expansion. Guaranteed.

R-M civs have three major advantages which make territorial conquest simple, even all the way up to Diety. Here they are:
1) Ease of building barracks - fewer production points needed means these can be rushed after only one turn, and same for:
2) Ease of building temples
3) Increased probability of attaining leaders (especially because most units will start Veteran, due to advantage #1)
4) The ability to control much territory early in the game means a greater chance that strategic resources will be yours later in the game.

How do you put these advantages to the best use?
Let's split the game into two periods. The first is what we'll call Rapid Expansion. The second period we'll call Hyperpower Blitz, which begins when you securely hold a continent, and maybe others, but further rapid expansion becomes unlikely. Nonetheless, by this point you are the sole hyperpower (as indicated on the histograph), even if there are other great powers. Note that especially on pangaea maps, the first stage of rapid expansion may win you the game without need for the second stage.

I. Rapid Expansion
Follow these simple pointers, and this first stage becomes one of rapid and unfettered territorial growth!

1. Butcher, don't Produce.
Stay in Despotism. Found cities based upon growth ability: e.g. by haystacks and flood plains if possible. After producing only one shield, early units can be rushed at the expense of only one population point. Because this is an R-M Civ, the same is true also of both barracks and temples! Right off the bat, then, you should rush a barracks in every city, and a temple too in every city you found or conquer. What this means is that you'll be producing the best trained units for easy conquest. Easy territory, not to mention cultural growth. You might sound like a boorish civ, but with temples built immediately, you'll have the initial cultural edge over most other civs.

2. Bully, don't Research.
You might consider the zero research option. Prey immediately on nearby civs. Begin conquering cities IMMEDIATELY. As soon as one is conquered, contact the preyed-upon civ. If this is their first founded city, which is likely, they will speak to you, and not only that, but for peace they will trade all their tech, as well as all their gold and even gold per turn! Bullying is important both for tech and for gold, which is important because if your treasury runs too low, your barracks, temples, and units will get disbanded. HAVE NO MERCY. Once you've made peace, and this civ acquires more techs and founds new cities, once again begin the war (reputation schmeputation!) and once again take all his/her techs and gold and anything else (workers, communications, even other cities if they're willing, in which case rush a defensive unit into these ASAP). You'll find that so long as you keep rushing veteran offensive units - even warriors and archers at the beginning will be extremely effective - you can prey upon multiple civs at once without overstretching your military capability. Note also that if for some reason you DO need to buy a civ for a military advance, say, from a more distant civ that discovered it first, buying should be easy. You're not spending money on anything else, so your account should be accumulating to the point where it would be surprising if you weren't the wealthiest civ.

3. All Hail the Great Leader!
Attack effectively to increase your chances of getting leaders. This means only using veteran units to attack barbarians (elites never produce leaders against them) and using elites when possible to attack IF NO LEADER IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE. If a leader is available, another leader won't appear, so take the opportunity to give your veterans that extra dose of experience. This leads to the next point:

4. Leaders Build Wonders, not Armies
Use your leaders ASAP. Forget about armies. You're already the most militarily powerful in your vicinity, even in Deity. What you want are wonders. But not just any wonders. The first thing you want, you NEED, are PYRAMIDS. Faster growth for your cities means faster production of units. Remember, when you're rushing units, city growth is all that matters! Other wonders you might find important are Leonardo's Workshop, for easy upgrade abilities (but since you're not spending any money youll soon find yourself rediculously wealthy, able to afford all upgrades) and Sun Tzu - not really for yourself since you'll already have barracks in every city, but to deny it to an opponent. If a nearby civ builds any of these, concentrate all efforts on capturing that city.

5. Plan for the Long Term
A. The Swordsman Connundrum
Swordsmen are great for this stage, but they don't upgrade, and once opponents discover Feudalism and get pikemen, you'll wish they did. Make sure you have a healthy dose of upgradable units as well. With barracks everywhere, upgrading units will be easy as pie later int he game. Don't throw away this advantage with an unhealthy glut of swordsmen.
B. The Resource Imbalance
As mentioned above, the more territory you control at an early stage, the more likely it will be that strategic resources later in the game will be under your control. Maximize these chances by bringing under your control those territory types most likely to provide these resources. This is especially important for oil and rubber, which is to a certain extent predictable.
C. The Core Area
As we'll see, later in the game, the core area becomes significant once again. At some point, when you feel it is possible, use all your other cities EXCEPT your core to produce units, and meanwhile invest in the core's infrastructure to increase production potential. Use a leader to build a FP in a strategic location and do the same thing in that zone as well (if this still allows the necessary military production to take place from cities outside these cores).

SUMMARY: In this stage all (or most) of what you need is cynicism. Attack other civs not only to increae territory, but to plunder them for gold and techs as well as for the opportunity to create leaders. Continue these wars at will. Your military power will increase exponentially as you build (rush) barracks and units in each captured city, and your culture will rise as you rush temples into them. Continue this expansion for as long as possible. Eventually you'll have taken over your continent and maybe others as well, but further quick victories seem unlikely.

II. Hyperpower Blitz

Now, brute force won't win anymore without a bit of brains. Strategy matters now. But not in the wussy sense. Strategy in this stage means choosing your enemies wisely, and deciding in what order you want to attack them. Considerations include:

1) YOU ONLY NEED TO CONTROL 66% OF THE LAND TO GET A DOMINATION VICTORY!
This means that if your closest competitor is quite strong, but does not own 33% of the world's territory, YOU MAY NOT ACTUALLY NEED TO ATTACK YOUR CLOSEST COMPETITOR! You may even be able to befriend them! See? R-M civs can do realpolitik too! (If you've taken over all the other territory except that civ and you still haven't won, then pursue a war, and soon youll have conquered enough to win without having to wipe out that civ, which may be an impossible task.) Even if this civ seems to become super-powerful, advances beyond you in tech, etc., remember, this is not necessarily signinficant as the territory is not necessary. It only becomes a problem where this civ actively seeks to rival you in territorial expansion. In this case, an all-or-nothing gamble war against this civ might be the most macho and therefore appropriate action.

2) Use your Core Area
Rushing units later in the game becomes more difficult, as they can no longer be rushed in one turn. Here is where your long-neglected core area will now come in handy. As we saw earlier, hopefully you had some foresight and upgraded this area's production capabilities. If you've had a glut of leaders, hopefully you've built the FP somewhere strategic as well. Invest further in the top-producing cities by strategically rushing population increasing structures such as aquaduct or hospitals and rushing factories and power plants (waiting a bit after beginning production so the toll on the population isn't excessive).

3) Attack for Strategic Resources
Both to accumulate yourself, or deny others. Another R-M advantage is useful here, which is ease of building HARBORS, (only one turn before you can rush them) meaning your strategic assets are easily transferrable across continents. Once you gain a foothold ona continent, you can therefore begin to very soon rush your best possible units there.

4) Ruthlessly Invade!
What you're after are large continents that are politically fractured. You can even sign ROP agreements with one civ on the continent to get your units in, blitz the other civ(s) then turn against the ROP civ. It's dirty, but again, reputation schmeputation. If you've chosen to cozy to your nearest rival because you've decided their territory is the 33% you don't need, then still, worry not - breaking an ROP won't hurt your rep so much that this relationship will be jeapordized. (If you're worried, make some trades with this civ and pretty soon he/she'll be 'polite' again in no time.)
While pursuing wars on other continents, the same rules of ruthlessness as in the first period apply. Note that there are good pointers for attacking in the modern era (if you even get to that era without winning first!) These include putting down infantry onto mountaintops connected to the enemy's railroad system so the AI will instantly wipe out its entire offensive army in a single turn.

ONCE YOU CONTROL 66%, YOU WIN!

CONGRATS! You should be rapidly spreading your color across the map, thanks to your ability to maximize the advantages of your R-M civ. Happy hunting!

*NOTA BENE: This article is not as directly applicable to C3C. However, the advice is useful if you account for the specific modifications of C3C.

*********DOMANDEST*********

Last edited by Domandest; Apr 07, 2005 at 06:57 AM.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 03:26 AM   #2
Khan_Asparuh
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Welcome in CFC. Interesting article as first post.
I admit that Rel and Mil are good for these cheap rax and temples but this tactic is good with any civ too.
Personnaly I avoid building baracks everywhere. 1 gpt support is a lot, for a city that may produce a unit every 10 turns (at 2 spt for exemple).
And this is different in higher difficulties. If you face muskets with swords, I wish you luck.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 03:52 AM   #3
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Welcome to CFC !


I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest

4. Leaders Build Wonders, not Armies
Use your leaders ASAP. Forget about armies. You're already the most militarily powerful in your vicinity, even in Deity. What you want are wonders. But not just any wonders. The first thing you want, you NEED, are PYRAMIDS....
*********DOMANDEST*********


In C3C MGL's cannot rush Great Wonders. They can only rush small wonders IIRC.

Only SGL's can rush Great Wonders and they certainly cannot create armies.

I suggest you point out that the strategy article you've submitted is for a version of civ III prior to the release of C3C.

II.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest
What you want are wonders
Also, the last thing a deity player needs are wonders. Great Wonders hamper one's playing technique, specially the Pyramids, Great Library and Hanging Gardens. They act as crutches. Players below Emperor shouldn't build them because their gameplay prowess doesn't evolve as quickly and fail to produce the neccessary techniques which will enable them to micromanage and play comeback from behind in the higher ecehelon of difficulty (Emperor and above). Deity players need not rely on great Wonders aswell as they excel already and don't need to rely upon their effects. Great Wonders, IMHO, are there for the fun of it, don't build them, just conquer them.

I recommend reading Ision's great article on the 4 rules of Wonder addiction:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...8&page=1&pp=20

III.-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest
1) YOU ONLY NEED TO CONTROL 66% OF THE LAND TO GET A DOMINATION VICTORY
If I'm not mistaken you need to control 66 % of the landmass AND 66% of the population. Perhaps I'm mistaken. You'll have to hit the F8 key.

IV. You kinda mention the FP as a sort of second core of high production. This was true in civ vanilla and I think for PTW also. The effects of the FP in C3C have been toned down, so you might aswell build it asap next to your capital because it only helps to reduce corruption by increasing the OCN. Theres still no general agreemnt on this point however. Some people recommend to build the FP in the second ring around the capital.

V. I'd also recommend you to get out of despotism asap and head for Republic. You shouldn't trigger a golden age under despotism because of the shield and gold penalties of this government. Once you're outta desp and in another form of goverment -cough- Republic -cough- trigger you're golden age. You'll see the heck of a difference from desp.

VI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest
Swordsmen are great for this stage, but they don't upgrade
Swordsmen upgrade to MDI, after that they upgrade to guerillas IIRC. What you've posted is true for civ vanilla I think. In PTW you could upgrade them. So I believe you are actually playing with civ vanilla. Things have sure changed a lot from civ vanilla to C3C v.1.22.

VII. Lastly, I'd like to point out that the agricultural trait is vastly superior to all the rest in C3C, much in the same way as Industrial was for PTW and civ vanilla.

The religious and military traits are the worst in my opinion for C3C, being the latter the worst. The military trait was great back in civ vanilla when you could farm leaders and use them to rush wonders. I think you are referring to that. The religious trait is only good for 20k, 100k and SS victories.

If you want a quick domination swordsmen victory in C3C pick the celts. With the agricultural trait and gallic swordsmen are great to storm the world in a green whirl.

Last edited by Drakan; Apr 08, 2005 at 02:54 AM.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 07:04 AM   #4
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Drakan-

I've added the caveat that this article applies to C3C only if you account for the modifications. I suppose that's true of any strategy article pertaining to Civ III preC3C.

Also regarding
Quote:
Also, the last thing a deity player needs are wonders. Great Wonders hamper one's playing technique, specially the Pyramids, Great Library and Hanging Gardens. They act as crutches. Players below Emperor shouldn't build them because their gameplay prowess doesn't evolve as quickly and fail to produce the neccessary techniques which will enable them to micromanage and play comeback from behind in the higher ecehelon of difficulty (Emperor and above). Deity players need not rely on great Wonders aswell as they excel already and don't need to rely upon their effects. Great Wonders, IMHO, are there for the fun of it, don't build them, just conquer them.
I tend to agree that the real fun of wonders is conquering them. Sometimes I feel super-destructive and aim to just wipe them off the face of the planet. But I still think there is utility in building some if they relate to the specific goals of your chosen strategy. Place yourself back in Civ III "Vanilla" where great leaders virtually provide freebies. Who wouldn't take the opportunity? You mentioned they constrain, but hardly so much as exogenous circumstances and multiplicity of factors for which you account in planning grand strategy and micromanagement. As such, GWs may change the way a game is played, but so wot? Git'ova'it!

*******D*O*M*A*N*D*E*S*T*RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHH HHHHH
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 07:22 AM   #5
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Actually in vanilla building wonders with MGL was really a tempting feature, but in C3C armies are heavily improved (maybe too much) and usualy wonders are built from a scratch.
There are pacifists in CFC, there are warmongers too, and I consider myself as a balance of the two. I never fear a war, but will commit it only for a really good purpose. So your article is interesting, except for the religious part that is equally remplaced by a scientific one. Can't we do the same with a sci civ? (I know, libs are more expensive, but sci has other advantages too).
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 08:36 AM   #6
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Yeop, I agree with Khan, I posted an article in Spanish on Spanish Apolyton site regarding armies the same day Theoden posted his in CFC.

Now in C3C Armies are incredibly powerful, they've been completely overhauled from PTW. They are "the" cornerstone in my conquests. The only problem being that in C3C AI armies are now brocken so it's the AI is not equal footing (not that it ever has anyway).

As for using using leaders back in civ vanilla for rushing wonders Domandest, I did do it and it was fun, but now in C3C I'd rather build armies (you can even cash-rush them now !). However, I still indulge myself in building the GL at Deity .

Last edited by Drakan; Apr 08, 2005 at 01:57 AM.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 04:00 PM   #7
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Why would anyone stop playing vanilla? Later versions might add more flavors but the quality is just too light and airy.
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Old Apr 07, 2005, 04:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest
Why would anyone stop playing vanilla? Later versions might add more flavors but the quality is just too light and airy.
DOMANDEST
RA RA RA RA RA RA RA RA RA RA
Because there are many more features and it's not airy at all since games, by definition, cannot be airy?
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Old Apr 08, 2005, 12:17 PM   #9
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Dear TOMOYO-
Re your comments: You have let yourself DOWN majorly.

Dear KHAN-
Re armies: An interesting trick in Civ III vanilla &c is that 9/10 times, AI units will never attack a unit or an army if it believes there is no chance of success. An army of defensive units can therefore easily carry in an unlimited amount of offensive/artillery units deep into enemy territory nearly without ever being opposed. The AI will literally allow you to casually stroll right up to their most important and valuable cities, their most important and valuable resources, etc. It's delicious and nutritious too.

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Old Apr 08, 2005, 01:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest.
4) Ruthlessly Invade!
What you're after are large continents that are politically fractured. You can even sign ROP agreements with one civ on the continent to get your units in, blitz the other civ(s) then turn against the ROP civ. It's dirty, but again, reputation schmeputation.
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." ~Sophocles
"An ill deed cannot bring honor." ~ George Herbert

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. A blatant exploit IMO.
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Old Apr 08, 2005, 01:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Dear TOMOYO-
Re your comments: You have let yourself DOWN majorly.
Read yours. So have you.
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Old Apr 08, 2005, 03:24 PM   #12
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Moderator Action: Domandest, stop posting spammy posts (such as singing, or off topic posts). It isn't tolerated, and will result in a ban if you continue.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
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Old Apr 08, 2005, 04:12 PM   #13
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BTW, since you are religious, you can change between Monarchy, Republic, and whatever else in 1 turn. Staying in Despotism is a very poor strategy.
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Old Apr 08, 2005, 08:36 PM   #14
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IMO this is an interesting perspective on using these traits though I think there are better trait combinations.

For instance - in C3C build Temple of Artemis for your cultural expansion. Better yet, get a good settler factory and raze and replace. These tactics would negate the advantages of religious you describe.

Clearly food is the power in this game so I would have to say agricultural trait is better than either of the traits you mention. If you insist on vanilla, industrious would be better than religious for a war-mongering game. Workers build roads and mines faster enabling production of more units faster.

I also have to say that despotism has nasty corruption problems and should be replaced with at least a monarchy as soon as possible.

On the C3C vs. vanilla - I think the AI is a lot less gullible in C3C than vanilla so it is a better game to play. Oh it is still gullible don't get me wrong but it is better.

This article also shows there is more than one way to succeed on this game. Beating deity with these traits would be no small trick in my book.
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Old Apr 09, 2005, 07:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domandest.
4) Ruthlessly Invade!
What you're after are large continents that are politically fractured. You can even sign ROP agreements with one civ on the continent to get your units in, blitz the other civ(s) then turn against the ROP civ. It's dirty, but again, reputation schmeputation.


"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." ~Sophocles
"An ill deed cannot bring honor." ~ George Herbert
I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. A blatant exploit IMO.
WHOMP: Here now it is YOU have have let yourself down. I agree that it is true it is an exploit but there are other ways of doing it to avoid this. See, you use the ROP with one civ to attack others on the continent, then you wait on those cities you capture till the ROP runs out, you cancel it and declare war from within your newly acquired territory. VOILA! Exploit-free civIIIand all the power of glowerpowerrhungry machinating whaargh as well.
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Old Apr 09, 2005, 07:27 PM   #16
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That makes no sense. That's just using a ROP with the civ closer to you to invade one bordering that civ, then attacking the one closer. What's so special about that?
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Old Apr 09, 2005, 10:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
That makes no sense. That's just using a ROP with the civ closer to you to invade one bordering that civ, then attacking the one closer. What's so special about that?
Dear TOMOYO, I can see that we are going to be best friends. The way we think is very similar and also very contradictory, which is both simple and complex. As I said about the ROP you said this is obvious. That is true, it is, but I was using it in the article as an example of strategic tghinking to be used in the second half of the game rather than the simple but vicious "kill anything within sight" mentality that dominates the first half of the game while youre busy taking over your continent. See?

DoMaNdeeeeeSSSST
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 04:11 PM   #18
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Well, that makes sense... I forgot that beachhead invasions didn't have to be beachhead invasions most of the time.

I'm also sorry for anything I may have said before. I was a bit mad...
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 05:10 PM   #19
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Heh

I dont know about your article but youve got some good enthusiasm and energy. That is unless Tomoyo is pulling a fast one and arguing with himself/herself for giggles?
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Old Apr 11, 2005, 05:35 PM   #20
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I dont know about your article but youve got some good enthusiasm and energy. That is unless Tomoyo is pulling a fast one and arguing with himself/herself for giggles?
"Himself". And sometimes I just start arguing for a point that I don't believe in but I know enough about.
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