City planning and dotmapping - Page 12

Tubby Rower · Oct 24, 2005, 04:37 PM

Oh crap guys.... When I played the save the settler looked as though it was headed to the read dot so it is headed that way now. I think that it would be quicker to wait 2 turns to get the next settler to move to the dyes.

Again, sorry. But the good news is that I saved a bunch on my insuruance with Gieko. I mean I have internet access here at the hotel all be it just dial up

.

gmaharriet · Oct 24, 2005, 05:06 PM

Hooray for having Geiko

and internet access!

Admiral Kutzov · Oct 24, 2005, 07:25 PM

not to jump too far ahead, but, sometime after furs, I'd like to get a city on the other side of the channel. Sometime being when we don't care about the corruption and after there are GS running amok

Sir Bugsy · Oct 24, 2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Kutzov

not to jump too far ahead, but, sometime after furs, I'd like to get a city on the other side of the channel. Sometime being when we don't care about the corruption and after there are GS running amok

I have to second the Admiral here. Establishing that beachhead will be critical to operations on the other continent.

Tubby Rower · Oct 24, 2005, 08:06 PM

I'd be up for the 1st settler after galleys goes across the chunnel. GS should be online then.

Whomp · Oct 24, 2005, 08:12 PM

We need to be careful not having GS over there if there's not enough spears over the top. We don't want a despotic GA.

Crakie · Oct 25, 2005, 03:40 AM

I agree with Whomp, no GS on the other continent at least until we're a republic and even then we might want to wait. Any chance we can snag a luxury over there?

Daghdha · Oct 25, 2005, 03:48 AM

Control over the channel

Then block it with state of the art naval units and make them, TNT/Nuts, go suicide if they try to invade. Then they have to come from the other side but we have a decent warning system there, right.

Whomp · Oct 25, 2005, 07:54 AM

Gareed Daghie. "Naval blockade" even sounds cool. I think we control the channel with what 4 boat?

Beorn-eL-Feared · Oct 25, 2005, 11:04 AM

If we found on the other continent, there is a tiole exactly 4 tiles due W of "Polar Bear Club" or whatever booti MM'd my town to sound like

Post with the big picture of the map over the channel

That implies that it's exactly a galley+GLH run over from a direct ferry with no movement lost for units, or a galley run with a unit move lost w/o. Or even, a caravel's direct move. Once we get to the MA, caravel+knights could make a very nice mix; before that GLH would have a reason to be conisdered.

As for the blockade, we need 6 fortified boaties on our side of the channel to make it impossible to cross with a galley, without GLH: from 2NW PBC to S-SW. With GLH for them it makes our job virtually impossible, with it for us it doesn't lower the amount of boats needed - but it does imply we can surround boats that would survive in the open.

We shouldn't exclude the possibility of a southern connection of the landmasses, which would make it impossible to blockade attacks.

Daghdha · Oct 25, 2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beorn-eL-Feared

We shouldn't exclude the possibility of a southern connection of the landmasses, which would make it impossible to blockade attacks.

If I've got it right there is only this one plus the one down SE in MIA-land. An agreement could be made w MIA on blocking both those gaps.
About stray enemy ships surviving a suicide run I don't see that as such a big problem. The main point in blocking the gap is, IMIO, that we can prevent an enemy fleet from passing, thus making it difficult for them to do move troops in general be it for an invasion or just re-grouping.

Sir Bugsy · Oct 25, 2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakie

I agree with Whomp, no GS on the other continent at least until we're a republic and even then we might want to wait. Any chance we can snag a luxury over there?

I don't understand this logic at all. Why don't we just paint a target on our chest and give our cities over there away. If we go to the other continent, we go in force. Period. End of story. You think TNT and their immortals are going to throw a tea party for us? We need to land at least three GS with our first settler.

If we're going across, a despot GA is the least of our worries.

Daghdha · Oct 26, 2005, 04:04 AM

I think TNT will not attack one city built on their side of the gap. They would have a 2 front war with the fastest growing civ

.
If we are concerned about not getting despot GA, but still have GS's around, we could wait settling until rep. is about 15 turns away. That is my estimate on how long it will take for them to notice and gather a force to attack. I even think we could settle w/o being noticed for some time because they are sending all their troops S and if they don't have a lookout...
We should be able to time the settlement with our change of government and still be first on that spot.
We're not forced to go slow burn on rep, right?

grahamiam · Oct 26, 2005, 06:26 AM

@Daghda: if we lose the city, + the units defending, we will have serious WW problems. I have to agree with Bugs: we are in no position atm to seriously consider holding on to an overseas city. Heck, what could we do if they land 5 Immortals in the next 10 turns? We mostly have warriors, so we'll be screwed. If they have knowledge of that area of the map, they will see the city once it's settled.

This port city can be a long term goal, but we need to do it seriously (and I'm thinking more like 15-20 GS's, not 3).

barbslinger · Oct 26, 2005, 09:02 AM

I agree with Grahamiam and Bugs. If they initiate war we will bring it to them. Right now lets get our cities (core) up and running, some workers working and our power developing. With our growth we will be able to outproduce them easily. I would hope for a scenario where we are twice as big as they are and they attack us. We cremate them during our GA in Repub and then land 20-30 GS on thier capital doorstep with a fleet.

Tubby Rower · Oct 26, 2005, 09:06 AM

@Dag, no we are not forced to do a slow burn on Republic, ut if we keep up the min run for too long, there's no way we could make it up.

@everyone, I think that the city across the gap is long-term goal. I agree that we should be over there in force and 3 isn't enough. 15-20 might be overkill but that's better than underkill right? Remember if the fireworks don't go off don't pick them up. Just run over them with another GS

.

Whomp · Oct 26, 2005, 10:31 AM

I think a Grahamiam level SoD(15-20) is required on the other continent before we ever consider aggressive settlement there.

To me if we are looking to control the gap then galleys will cost us considerably less than building a city that needs protection from out best unit. Let's remember TNT is ages behind in tech and could be a good 20-30+ turns or more from Map making. We're there soon.

Let's make this a long term goal once our military has filled in and hopefully avoid a despotic GA.

Daghdha · Oct 26, 2005, 12:58 PM

I totally garee that settling Our second continent is a long term goal. My only concern is we lose that strategic poit if we wait too long.
If TNT are using Immo's vs. Nuts they will soon trigger their GA and that will last for 20 turns. How much do have left on a mini run for Rep.? Isn't it so that they will be out of their GA at about the same time we have changed government? If they are some techs behind and have been at war for ages wouldn't that be a good time to move forward, assuming our GS's plants are up and running at that time?
I also suggest this will be a co-op with MIA. That would have the benefit of greater firepower as well as MIA have to move some troops off our continent. I think it would be unwise to ship the bulk of our military overseas w/o MIA doing the same. It could put naughty ideas in their heads.

Crakie · Oct 26, 2005, 01:16 PM

I was just saying that IF the team wants to settle fairly quickly on the other continent, I think we should hold off the GS before reaching republic. Whether settling there soon is actually worthwhile is another question; I haven't quite made up my mind on it to be honest.

Fact of the matter remains that those cities won't be easy to defend - bringing a sufficiently large stack of GS or defenders will stretch our resources too much. Our core is more important than a couple of far away cities. So IF we settle over there, we take for granted that they won't be defended that well, gambling on the fact they have other interests to pursue than attacking us.

Sir Bugsy · Nov 01, 2005, 09:01 PM

Here is a view of how our cross channel operations should work:

Oct 24, 2005, 04:37 PM	#221
Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Middle of Virginia Hair: None Posts: 5,832	Oh crap guys.... When I played the save the settler looked as though it was headed to the read dot so it is headed that way now. I think that it would be quicker to wait 2 turns to get the next settler to move to the dyes. Again, sorry. But the good news is that I saved a bunch on my insuruance with Gieko. I mean I have internet access here at the hotel all be it just dial up . __________________ Mii Wii Number - 8312 8910 9560 5088 NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS --never fight with an idiot, for he'll bring you down to his level and beat you by experience.-- >>>>"imagine a super idiot so idiotic you don't even say a word and he starts laughing at what you said. That'd be amazing" - B <<<< "Stupid is forever. You can't change stupidity." - Temple's Basketball Coach John Chaney to the home crowd

Oct 24, 2005, 05:06 PM	#222
gmaharriet Ancient Crone Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 4,117	Hooray for having Geiko and internet access! __________________ Avatar by MisTfit "Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a purpose." - Garrison Keillor .

Oct 24, 2005, 07:25 PM	#223
Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 4,881	not to jump too far ahead, but, sometime after furs, I'd like to get a city on the other side of the channel. Sometime being when we don't care about the corruption and after there are GS running amok __________________ Full spead ahead. Torpeado the damned or something like that...

Oct 24, 2005, 08:06 PM	#225
Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Middle of Virginia Hair: None Posts: 5,832	I'd be up for the 1st settler after galleys goes across the chunnel. GS should be online then. __________________ Mii Wii Number - 8312 8910 9560 5088 NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS --never fight with an idiot, for he'll bring you down to his level and beat you by experience.-- >>>>"imagine a super idiot so idiotic you don't even say a word and he starts laughing at what you said. That'd be amazing" - B <<<< "Stupid is forever. You can't change stupidity." - Temple's Basketball Coach John Chaney to the home crowd

Oct 24, 2005, 08:12 PM	#226
Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,965	We need to be careful not having GS over there if there's not enough spears over the top. We don't want a despotic GA. __________________ Avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable. --Mark Hertsgaard A small team of A players can run circles around a giant team of B and C players. --Steve Jobs When all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen. --Bob Farrell Some of it, you want to unlearn. -- Keith Richards

Oct 25, 2005, 03:40 AM	#227
Crakie Soupnazi Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 527	I agree with Whomp, no GS on the other continent at least until we're a republic and even then we might want to wait. Any chance we can snag a luxury over there?

Oct 25, 2005, 03:48 AM	#228
Daghdha Absent Minded Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Out To Lunch Posts: 2,030	Control over the channel Then block it with state of the art naval units and make them, TNT/Nuts, go suicide if they try to invade. Then they have to come from the other side but we have a decent warning system there, right. __________________ Team GONG: Oh, there's the bottom! Sixpack Holiday (Biggest Little Band Around) Last edited by Daghdha; Oct 25, 2005 at 07:50 AM.

Oct 25, 2005, 07:54 AM	#229
Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,965	Gareed Daghie. "Naval blockade" even sounds cool. I think we control the channel with what 4 boat? __________________ Avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable. --Mark Hertsgaard A small team of A players can run circles around a giant team of B and C players. --Steve Jobs When all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen. --Bob Farrell Some of it, you want to unlearn. -- Keith Richards

Oct 25, 2005, 11:04 AM	#230
Beorn-eL-Feared Idiot riding pedals Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: R³ x T's nbhd of North singularity Posts: 5,637	If we found on the other continent, there is a tiole exactly 4 tiles due W of "Polar Bear Club" or whatever booti MM'd my town to sound like Post with the big picture of the map over the channel That implies that it's exactly a galley+GLH run over from a direct ferry with no movement lost for units, or a galley run with a unit move lost w/o. Or even, a caravel's direct move. Once we get to the MA, caravel+knights could make a very nice mix; before that GLH would have a reason to be conisdered. As for the blockade, we need 6 fortified boaties on our side of the channel to make it impossible to cross with a galley, without GLH: from 2NW PBC to S-SW. With GLH for them it makes our job virtually impossible, with it for us it doesn't lower the amount of boats needed - but it does imply we can surround boats that would survive in the open. We shouldn't exclude the possibility of a southern connection of the landmasses, which would make it impossible to blockade attacks. __________________ La mort d'aucun individu, parmi les humains, n'est importante. Lorsqu'on meure et qu'on laisse une oeuvre après soi, on ne meurt pas complètement. On ne meurt pas totalement tant que demeure l'humanité. -Asimov Last edited by Beorn-eL-Feared; Oct 25, 2005 at 11:08 AM.

Oct 26, 2005, 04:04 AM	#233
Daghdha Absent Minded Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Out To Lunch Posts: 2,030	I think TNT will not attack one city built on their side of the gap. They would have a 2 front war with the fastest growing civ . If we are concerned about not getting despot GA, but still have GS's around, we could wait settling until rep. is about 15 turns away. That is my estimate on how long it will take for them to notice and gather a force to attack. I even think we could settle w/o being noticed for some time because they are sending all their troops S and if they don't have a lookout... We should be able to time the settlement with our change of government and still be first on that spot. We're not forced to go slow burn on rep, right? __________________ Team GONG: Oh, there's the bottom! Sixpack Holiday (Biggest Little Band Around)

Oct 26, 2005, 06:26 AM	#234
grahamiam In debt to Mr. Geisel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsyltukey, USA Posts: 4,100	@Daghda: if we lose the city, + the units defending, we will have serious WW problems. I have to agree with Bugs: we are in no position atm to seriously consider holding on to an overseas city. Heck, what could we do if they land 5 Immortals in the next 10 turns? We mostly have warriors, so we'll be screwed. If they have knowledge of that area of the map, they will see the city once it's settled. This port city can be a long term goal, but we need to do it seriously (and I'm thinking more like 15-20 GS's, not 3).

Oct 26, 2005, 09:02 AM	#235
barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Buying a round for grumpy old men Posts: 2,403	I agree with Grahamiam and Bugs. If they initiate war we will bring it to them. Right now lets get our cities (core) up and running, some workers working and our power developing. With our growth we will be able to outproduce them easily. I would hope for a scenario where we are twice as big as they are and they attack us. We cremate them during our GA in Repub and then land 20-30 GS on thier capital doorstep with a fleet. __________________ Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes..... and empty bottles. Imbibo insquequo madidus!

Oct 26, 2005, 09:06 AM	#236
Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Middle of Virginia Hair: None Posts: 5,832	@Dag, no we are not forced to do a slow burn on Republic, ut if we keep up the min run for too long, there's no way we could make it up. @everyone, I think that the city across the gap is long-term goal. I agree that we should be over there in force and 3 isn't enough. 15-20 might be overkill but that's better than underkill right? Remember if the fireworks don't go off don't pick them up. Just run over them with another GS . __________________ Mii Wii Number - 8312 8910 9560 5088 NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS --never fight with an idiot, for he'll bring you down to his level and beat you by experience.-- >>>>"imagine a super idiot so idiotic you don't even say a word and he starts laughing at what you said. That'd be amazing" - B <<<< "Stupid is forever. You can't change stupidity." - Temple's Basketball Coach John Chaney to the home crowd

Oct 26, 2005, 10:31 AM	#237
Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,965	I think a Grahamiam level SoD(15-20) is required on the other continent before we ever consider aggressive settlement there. To me if we are looking to control the gap then galleys will cost us considerably less than building a city that needs protection from out best unit. Let's remember TNT is ages behind in tech and could be a good 20-30+ turns or more from Map making. We're there soon. Let's make this a long term goal once our military has filled in and hopefully avoid a despotic GA. __________________ Avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable. --Mark Hertsgaard A small team of A players can run circles around a giant team of B and C players. --Steve Jobs When all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen. --Bob Farrell Some of it, you want to unlearn. -- Keith Richards

Oct 26, 2005, 12:58 PM	#238
Daghdha Absent Minded Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Out To Lunch Posts: 2,030	I totally garee that settling Our second continent is a long term goal. My only concern is we lose that strategic poit if we wait too long. If TNT are using Immo's vs. Nuts they will soon trigger their GA and that will last for 20 turns. How much do have left on a mini run for Rep.? Isn't it so that they will be out of their GA at about the same time we have changed government? If they are some techs behind and have been at war for ages wouldn't that be a good time to move forward, assuming our GS's plants are up and running at that time? I also suggest this will be a co-op with MIA. That would have the benefit of greater firepower as well as MIA have to move some troops off our continent. I think it would be unwise to ship the bulk of our military overseas w/o MIA doing the same. It could put naughty ideas in their heads. __________________ Team GONG: Oh, there's the bottom! Sixpack Holiday (Biggest Little Band Around)

Oct 26, 2005, 01:16 PM	#239
Crakie Soupnazi Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 527	I was just saying that IF the team wants to settle fairly quickly on the other continent, I think we should hold off the GS before reaching republic. Whether settling there soon is actually worthwhile is another question; I haven't quite made up my mind on it to be honest. Fact of the matter remains that those cities won't be easy to defend - bringing a sufficiently large stack of GS or defenders will stretch our resources too much. Our core is more important than a couple of far away cities. So IF we settle over there, we take for granted that they won't be defended that well, gambling on the fact they have other interests to pursue than attacking us.

Nov 01, 2005, 09:01 PM	#240
Sir Bugsy Deity Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zag Land Posts: 7,027	Here is a view of how our cross channel operations should work: __________________ Bugs "He who will not risk, cannot win." - John Paul Jones SGs: CelebrateGrace.com.

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