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Old Aug 13, 2005, 09:15 AM   #1
Ghafhi
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civ4 editor

The only thing I am thinking about is will civ 4 have a simple editore or will you have to be a computer whiz to create a new unit.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 09:34 AM   #2
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Simple, very powerful editor. Try reading the pre-release info on the site:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/


Edit - That's the impression we're given anyway.

Last edited by Janos; Aug 13, 2005 at 09:37 AM.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 10:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janos
Simple, very powerful editor. Try reading the pre-release info on the site:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/


Edit - That's the impression we're given anyway.
Very powerful editor doesn't say if it will be easy to use or not. Of course it would be great if we could add new diplomacy options and we could modify the AI... however if you need a Phd in computer programming in order to make it work, it won't be useful at all.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 10:19 AM   #4
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I said that it was the impression we've been given - not that it's set in stone.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 11:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghafhi
The only thing I am thinking about is will civ 4 have a simple editore or will you have to be a computer whiz to create a new unit.
It depends on what you mean by create a new unit. I would be shocked if Firaxis gave any 3D modeller at all as they use commercial products for that.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 11:46 AM   #6
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I think that a help that clearly describes each single flag in the editor would alread go a long way.
The other thing that would make it simpler is a "create a copy" button that would allow you to create a working copy of any unit building, that you could subsequently customize e.g. "create a copy of worker" "worker2 created" then you could rename worker2 and change its attributes...
This would have the drawback of having exactly the same graphic but it would go a very long way because I could create a worker for some civs and another for other civs and it would not matter that they have the same graphic

Separately, thanks to Janos for posting the link; I had been away from this forum for a while and I did not know about it
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 01:12 PM   #7
Marla_Singer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janos
I said that it was the impression we've been given - not that it's set in stone.
Sorry Janos, I've misread your post. I thought you were saying it was powerful, but I hadn't seen you've added "simple" as the first word of your post.

Ok so it's expectable it will be simple to use. Well, that would indeed be a great news.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 01:54 PM   #8
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hello !

Looking to the screenshots of CIV IV, I'm afraid it will be totally impossible to add new units or buildings like in CIV III... Have you read information about the customization of the game ? I have seen : map creation, rules modification but nothing about the graphics ...
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 01:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpstorm
It depends on what you mean by create a new unit. I would be shocked if Firaxis gave any 3D modeller at all as they use commercial products for that.
I would be shocked if we didnt have a 3d ,odel maker. They are quite common in games that you are expeccted to mod. Unreal turnament 2004 comes streight to mind. It comes with a map maker. A model maker. and A skin Designer. It is kinda complicated but people use it.

I would hope that civ would come with similair things.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 03:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marla_Singer
Sorry Janos, I've misread your post. I thought you were saying it was powerful, but I hadn't seen you've added "simple" as the first word of your post.

Ok so it's expectable it will be simple to use. Well, that would indeed be a great news.
Don't worry about it. That's the impression i have got from the interviews i have read/watched, and the information i have been provided with... so no it's not set in stone, however this is supposedly the "most mod-friendly version of Civ" yet. Jesse Smith (I think that's his name) claimed this in an interview.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 03:17 PM   #11
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Too bad the 3d graphics are so hard to edit, undoable for one person to make a truly unique mod that way.
That's why I liked Civ 2 so much, even I could make a complete mod back then (pixelating is easier )

The rules may be as editable as they get, as long as no handy tools are released to edit graphics, it won't be as editable as Civ 2 was.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 04:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Future
I would be shocked if we didnt have a 3d ,odel maker. They are quite common in games that you are expeccted to mod. Unreal turnament 2004 comes streight to mind.
Except that I know that Firaxis used off the shelf commercial modelling tools for all of their previous 3D (and even their 2D graphics) graphics. I assume since they spent the money and have the in-house expertise with these tools they wouldn't feel a great incentive to make their own.

In addition, there is a big difference between Unreal and Civ. In Unreal, Tim Sweeney and company at Epic make quite a bit of money just licensing the engine to other game developers (for Unreal 2 it was $750,000 a title). They needed to develop these tools to make their engine attractive to other developers (and the next suite looks awesome, as it should for the price).

In the case of Firaxis, the are licensees of the Gamebryo engine by NDL. It supports the two most common (in professional game development) modelling programs out of the box. To build a modeller that they didn't need (as the off the shelf tools are much cheaper than the programming time to make an equivalent tool) would be an extravagent gesture. Not to say they wouldn't, but I'd be pleasantly surprised.

What is more likely, is that they would include a convertor from 3DSMax format to NDL's format they are using in-game. This means that most any modelling package could be used to make the units.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 04:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicX
Too bad the 3d graphics are so hard to edit, undoable for one person to make a truly unique mod that way.
Why do you say that? The people I know who do this for a living (and the serious hobbyists who have gotten past the learning curve) are much more productive if you tell them to leave their animations in 3D.

Take a look at NeOmega's stuff on this forum. He has more than enough stuff for one mod and he did it himself and (I'm assuming here, based on the style of his units) spent the painful time of rendering his 3d animations to 2D.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 04:56 PM   #14
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Ok, I mean that you now have to be a professional 3d designer to make something decent out of it, while in the past almost anyone with great ideas could make a marvelous mod. The programming stuff, that's easy to learn, but 3d designing is the thing that keeps me from doing anything, because it's just too hard.
That's too bad actually.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 05:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpstorm
Take a look at NeOmega's stuff on this forum. He has more than enough stuff for one mod and he did it himself and (I'm assuming here, based on the style of his units) spent the painful time of rendering his 3d animations to 2D.
I believe for most of his old units he had to render frame by frame with hitting Prt Scr everytime and putting it into photoshop. Doesn't exactly sound fun.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 05:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by vbraun
I believe for most of his old units he had to render frame by frame with hitting Prt Scr everytime and putting it into photoshop. Doesn't exactly sound fun.
Ok, I understand that.
But right now, for non 3d designers, it has become impossible to do anything right... for those few pro's it's a heaven in Civ4, but still, it downplays modability for over 99 % of all potential modders with great ideas
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 06:55 PM   #17
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As long as we can create a map with ease, setup a good scenario with custom rules, and change unit attributes, I am happy. I certainly hope we won't have to learn a script system like many games coming out now are requiring, such as Empire Earth II. They really need to do away with stuff like that, that is not editing, that is programming and takes the fun out of editing. Although RoN pulls this off good and is simple to learn and fun to work with, the other games fail at it. Heck anyone can write a script for a RoN scenario. On the same lines, none of the Civ games have been this way so I doubt they will do this with Civ4. So as long as the editor is a good as Civ3, which I think is very, very, good, that will be totally fine with me. I don't really get into changing graphics, especially if its 3D. Just give me a good editor that can create maps and scenarios quickly, effectively and with ease. Although I would certainly miss all of the extras and awesome units everyone in the community here have created. Thumbs up to all of those people!
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 07:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SonicX
But right now, for non 3d designers, it has become impossible to do anything right...
Have you actually tried? It is more a matter of practice than some mystical ability.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 07:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SonicX
Ok, I understand that.
But right now, for non 3d designers, it has become impossible to do anything right... for those few pro's it's a heaven in Civ4, but still, it downplays modability for over 99 % of all potential modders with great ideas
I totally agree with SonicX.
The graphics are the barrier to moddablity, IMO. I wonder whehter people would be happy with a way to change just something trivial (e.g. color (other than team color, of course)) to make their modded units distinguiseable. I know I would be happy just with that.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 08:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by warpstorm
Have you actually tried? It is more a matter of practice than some mystical ability.
I can use StudioMax, but I can't make more than shiny balls, cubes and donuts
I'd have no idea how to make units in other words and learning a program like takes months and months...
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