Jefferson and Churchill?

Ex Mudder · Aug 16, 2005, 05:21 PM

From the pre-relase page http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/

"Some of the mentioned Great People are: Shakespeare, Nichola Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, Marco Polo, Marie Curie, J.S. Bach, Chuang Tzu, Thomas Jefferson, Winston Churchill and more recently, Starbucks creator Howard Schultz."

What, no Bill Gates? No Rockerfeller? <g>

Seriously, anyone know what KIND of Great Person Winston Churchill would make? Prophet? Merchant? Artist? Engineer? Scientist?

Churchill and Jefferson are listed as Scientists. Huh?

Can anyone verify these names? Or point me to where they came from?

grumbler · Aug 16, 2005, 05:36 PM

Most of them were mentioned in the recent IC-Games article. I have no idea, were Churchill, Jefferson or Schultz came from.

Sub · Aug 16, 2005, 05:57 PM

They should be leaders, not great people =/. I was a bit upset by that, I really wanted to play as Churchill.

apatheist · Aug 16, 2005, 07:13 PM

Having Schultz in there is a joke.

Illini Rule · Aug 16, 2005, 08:34 PM

Churchill is a leader. He was one of the best in history. Instead they put Queen whoever insted. That is stuped

Granite88 · Aug 16, 2005, 08:49 PM

Yeah but Churchill stepped up to the plate when the British needed him, he wasn't a peacetime leader so i think great person status suits him. Maybe Chaimberlain should be the British leader... Appeasement anyone? "Damn you Zulu, I will not pay you 24 gold for tribute!" "Advisor: "The Zulu have declared war on us!" :-/....

It is interesting that they have Schultz instead of Bill Gates...

JBearIt · Aug 16, 2005, 09:46 PM

Maybe Jefferson can be an engineer to the extent architects fit into the engineering category. He did design the original layout for the University of Virginia and also designed his mansion, Monticello. As for science, the main connection I can think of is that he sent Lewis & Clark on their expedition which beyond mapping out portions of the west, did a lot for zoology & botany. They did discover numerous new species of animal and plant life [to the extent you don't want to count the native Americans as discovering such species first]. Of course, he is best known as a politician and as a writer. Maybe writers qualify as great artists?

DAv2003 · Aug 17, 2005, 04:03 AM

Actually Churchill was a peacetime leader in the early 50's. There is no real reason why he shouldn't be an actual leader.

Granite88 · Aug 17, 2005, 05:34 AM

Ehh... I would still disagree with you on that, but good point.

HourlyDaily · Aug 17, 2005, 06:14 AM

From what I've picked up, a lot of civ players seem to be anti-modern age leaders (Excepting Mao and some suggestions to include a Communist to represent Russia)

To be honest, I don't think much of having a great leader put in the game in a field they are not known for (excpeting in cases where realistic alternatives don't exist: the Aztecs when one of their Kings was a great engineer)

On that point - do we know for sure now whether the great people are civ-specific or will Plato be representing Mali? That would just be lazy.

Janos · Aug 17, 2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Rule

Churchill is a leader. He was one of the best in history. Instead they put Queen whoever insted. That is stuped

Queen Victoria ruled during the British Empire and was a good leader. Queen Elizabeth is also a very well-known monarch of England. I'm happy with the inclusion of them, but Churchill would've been a good option i think.

Slax · Aug 17, 2005, 07:37 AM

It seems like some of you are confusing Great People with Civ Leaders. This is a discussion about Great People, isn't it?

The End Is Nigh · Aug 17, 2005, 07:55 AM

Queen Elizabeth ruled during England's Golden Age (which was more than 20 turns!!!), and at the height of the British Empire. Unfortunately for Churchill, who was without doubt a Great War Leader, the British Empire was already in decline by his time (and he was ousted from 10 Downing right after the war because most Britons felt that what the country needed to rebuild itself was Labour.

With regards to Bill Gates, well, I do not know whether he is 'great' or not, however, what I do know, is that the status of 'Greatness' is usually attributed to one long after his death ... and certainly not during one's lifetime.

TK42I · Aug 17, 2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex Mudder

From the pre-relase page [url]

Churchill and Jefferson are listed as Scientists. Huh?

I would swap Jefferson with Ben Franklin as Scientist great people. Ben Frankliin surely was and still is to some extent an international sensation in his time.

DAv2003 · Aug 17, 2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Queen Elizabeth ruled during England's Golden Age (which was more than 20 turns!!!), and at the height of the British Empire.

You mean Victoria?

mitsho · Aug 17, 2005, 11:22 AM

Well,
1. The english leader question is being threated in numerous threads, so don't do this in here please.
2. These listed great people are just an enumeration of a magazine. Wait for more info and it really isn't that important to make such a fuss out of it. They are but names! (as it is with religions!)

m

Timeeee4 · Aug 17, 2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The End Is Nigh

Queen Elizabeth ruled during England's Golden Age (which was more than 20 turns!!!),

Depends what turn your on, early on 20 turns is alot of years.

Japanrocks12 · Aug 17, 2005, 03:17 PM

We should also have Seth McFarlane on there as a Great Prophet.

Dr. Salazar · Aug 17, 2005, 04:12 PM

I can see Jefferson being a great scientist. After all, one doesn't need to research a truly technoligically based idea. He could have easily been used to discover democracy for example. Personally I would have rather them used Ben Franklin. As for churchhill, they just wanted him in the game, but didn't want to make him a leader for bizzare reasons.

Afgnwrlrd · Aug 18, 2005, 01:01 AM

I think they made a typo when they said Churchill was a great scientist.

Aug 16, 2005, 05:21 PM	#1
Ex Mudder Warlord Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 194	Jefferson and Churchill? From the pre-relase page http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/ "Some of the mentioned Great People are: Shakespeare, Nichola Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, Marco Polo, Marie Curie, J.S. Bach, Chuang Tzu, Thomas Jefferson, Winston Churchill and more recently, Starbucks creator Howard Schultz." What, no Bill Gates? No Rockerfeller? <g> Seriously, anyone know what KIND of Great Person Winston Churchill would make? Prophet? Merchant? Artist? Engineer? Scientist? Churchill and Jefferson are listed as Scientists. Huh? Can anyone verify these names? Or point me to where they came from?

Aug 16, 2005, 08:49 PM	#6
Granite88 Chieftain Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 72	Yeah but Churchill stepped up to the plate when the British needed him, he wasn't a peacetime leader so i think great person status suits him. Maybe Chaimberlain should be the British leader... Appeasement anyone? "Damn you Zulu, I will not pay you 24 gold for tribute!" "Advisor: "The Zulu have declared war on us!" :-/.... It is interesting that they have Schultz instead of Bill Gates... __________________ Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bear ourselves that should the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, this was their finest hour. -Sir Winston Churchill

Aug 16, 2005, 09:46 PM	#7
JBearIt Ard Ri Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 335	Jefferson Maybe Jefferson can be an engineer to the extent architects fit into the engineering category. He did design the original layout for the University of Virginia and also designed his mansion, Monticello. As for science, the main connection I can think of is that he sent Lewis & Clark on their expedition which beyond mapping out portions of the west, did a lot for zoology & botany. They did discover numerous new species of animal and plant life [to the extent you don't want to count the native Americans as discovering such species first]. Of course, he is best known as a politician and as a writer. Maybe writers qualify as great artists?

Aug 17, 2005, 05:34 AM	#9
Granite88 Chieftain Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 72	Ehh... I would still disagree with you on that, but good point. __________________ Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bear ourselves that should the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, this was their finest hour. -Sir Winston Churchill

Aug 17, 2005, 07:55 AM	#13
The End Is Nigh Repent!!! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Athens Posts: 213	Queen Elizabeth ruled during England's Golden Age (which was more than 20 turns!!!), and at the height of the British Empire. Unfortunately for Churchill, who was without doubt a Great War Leader, the British Empire was already in decline by his time (and he was ousted from 10 Downing right after the war because most Britons felt that what the country needed to rebuild itself was Labour. With regards to Bill Gates, well, I do not know whether he is 'great' or not, however, what I do know, is that the status of 'Greatness' is usually attributed to one long after his death ... and certainly not during one's lifetime. __________________ There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." Donald Rumsfeld, Former US Secretary of Defense

Aug 16, 2005, 05:36 PM	#2
grumbler Prince Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: In front of the screen Posts: 492	Most of them were mentioned in the recent IC-Games article. I have no idea, were Churchill, Jefferson or Schultz came from.

Aug 16, 2005, 05:57 PM	#3
Sub in omnia paratus Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 598	They should be leaders, not great people =/. I was a bit upset by that, I really wanted to play as Churchill.

Aug 16, 2005, 07:13 PM	#4
apatheist Emperor Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,270	Having Schultz in there is a joke.

Aug 16, 2005, 08:34 PM	#5
Illini Rule Warlord Join Date: May 2005 Location: The moon Posts: 129	Churchill is a leader. He was one of the best in history. Instead they put Queen whoever insted. That is stuped

Aug 17, 2005, 04:03 AM	#8
DAv2003 Prince Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: England Posts: 470	Actually Churchill was a peacetime leader in the early 50's. There is no real reason why he shouldn't be an actual leader.

Aug 17, 2005, 06:14 AM	#10
HourlyDaily Man-o-Mercy Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 507	From what I've picked up, a lot of civ players seem to be anti-modern age leaders (Excepting Mao and some suggestions to include a Communist to represent Russia) To be honest, I don't think much of having a great leader put in the game in a field they are not known for (excpeting in cases where realistic alternatives don't exist: the Aztecs when one of their Kings was a great engineer) On that point - do we know for sure now whether the great people are civ-specific or will Plato be representing Mali? That would just be lazy.

Aug 17, 2005, 07:37 AM	#12
Slax Prince Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 485	It seems like some of you are confusing Great People with Civ Leaders. This is a discussion about Great People, isn't it?

Aug 17, 2005, 11:22 AM	#16
mitsho Deity Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Europe, more or less Posts: 5,262	Well, 1. The english leader question is being threated in numerous threads, so don't do this in here please. 2. These listed great people are just an enumeration of a magazine. Wait for more info and it really isn't that important to make such a fuss out of it. They are but names! (as it is with religions!) m

Aug 17, 2005, 03:17 PM	#18
Japanrocks12 tired of being a man Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: earth Posts: 5,333	We should also have Seth McFarlane on there as a Great Prophet. __________________ "'Still it would be marvelous/to terrify a law clerk with a cut lily, or kill a nun with a blow on the ear. It would be great/to go through the streets with a green knife/letting out yells until I died of the cold." - Pablo Neruda, "Walking Around"

Aug 17, 2005, 04:12 PM	#19
Dr. Salazar Chieftain Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 33	I can see Jefferson being a great scientist. After all, one doesn't need to research a truly technoligically based idea. He could have easily been used to discover democracy for example. Personally I would have rather them used Ben Franklin. As for churchhill, they just wanted him in the game, but didn't want to make him a leader for bizzare reasons.

Aug 18, 2005, 01:01 AM	#20
Afgnwrlrd Chieftain Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 99	I think they made a typo when they said Churchill was a great scientist. __________________ "The Best Democracy Corporate Lobbyists Can Buy" NercoCristi 2.N.4

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