Foreign Affairs, War with Germany

[Icmancin]

Sadly my Fanatik peoples it has been decided to post the Poll for declaration of war. This Poll is for all citizens. The question is simple: War with Germany or Not.

The Link to Disscussion

Please note that there will be a separate Poll for the Senators.

(OOC: Sorry for the wait. Time is consuming me!)

[greekguy]

Declare war against the evil Germans and sign a Millitary Alliance with the civilized Romans.

[Civlord]

We don't need an alliance with Rome. We will make a quick war, and the alliance will get us stuck by 20 turns with the Romans. If we have success, we will be ending this war in 10 or 15 turns.

[Black_Hole]

NO War! What have they done to us?

[Donovan Zoi]

I started this, so hopefully I can finish it. Since there are too many variables in this whole matter, a simple war/no war poll will not do.

Based on the options here, I vote no war. I am a bit disappointed that I could not vote on the merits of my FA proposal, but that's the breaks. If war as presented here passes, all it shows is that no one takes the time to read the discussions.

[Furiey]

Not right as this time anyway.

[Icmancin]

vikingruler requested that I post a declaration Poll two days ago. My absence has been the cause of school and it will only get worse. vikingruler has sadly proposed a march to Berlin in the Turnchat instruction thread. There has been a severe lack of time in preparing. He has instructed that Warriors be upgraded to swords and move to Berlin. We have not even been giving the proper time for this declaration! I have hastely put together this Poll in an effort to ethier confim his actions for the TC or to stop them. If this Poll votes yes then war will begin this TC. Everybody has to know that, right? Those of course that voted for war. God I'm tired.


EDIT: I could've sworn I marked this Public...

[vikingruler]

i wanted to vote MA with rome and france. however, rome was more valuable the money is too good to pass up and the amount of forces hopefully in german territory will only help us take berlin. i posted my war plans in the TCIT thinking that little oppisition faced the war effort. cleary i was mistaken. still, war with germany.

[Gerikes]

I could never support this uneeded war. Not yet. Not now, not with true offensive capability still many years away. Show me we can fight a war, then show me the state of Germany, then ask me again. Besides, I see a massive change in the way we run the government of Civatonia with local policies coming about just over the horizon, let's not muck up our foreign policies with this anticipated time of crisis.

[Nobody]

I am against this war, Do you relise we are going to war with germany because france is threatening us!! lets fight france if it comes to war, not the germans.

[RegentMan]

Originally Posted by Icmancin

EDIT: I could've sworn I marked this Public...

You did; click the numbers.

[CivGeneral]

Our nation is not in a ready and stable state to go into war. We have a weak military ATM.

[Nobody]

I am against this war, infact i think that war with france is more likely (not that i would vote for it) But in the event of a war with germany we need to sign a allaince with both France and Rome.

[Nobody]

Citizen,
The reason people are calling for war against Germany is because France is threatening our western city of Augean Stables. The hawks belive that signing a military allaince with France will halt an possiable invasion.

The situation what scares the hawks is a few French military units are outside our borders. French units also did this during the turnchat i lead. After a tense stand off we ended the turn and French units moved east to fight Germany. Im not saying the French arn't here to attack us i am just saying theres a good chance there here to fight Germany.

If they have decided to attack us there is no evidence that a Military Allaince would even stop them. If we are to give the Military Allaince a chance to stop the french we must declare war on germany within the first two turns of the next turnchat. This means that we wont have time to bulid a big army in your cities. We would be at war with our current military. Even to bulid a larger defense force we would need to force labour to bulid hoplites in our citys. This all in the first two turns of the Next turnchat. That means we would be legally commited to a twenty turn war, thats twenty turns when we wont be buliding Libarys or temples, and we deffinantly won't be buliding any wonders.

Our military travels mostly by foot, if we mobilise and send it east into Germany it will never get back in time to defend us in the event of western agression. So you will be defending our citys against French Swordsmen, with our current military minus a few warriors that will be on a suicide mission in Germany.

There are some people in the Senate and in the Assembly voting for war with Germany without a Military Allaince with France, this is the crazyist thing possible. This would do nothing to deter France in the event that they want to attack us, and risk our eastern and western citys. Without Civatonia and the Augen Stables we have no iron or horses. We will lose the Final civ3 demogame. Vote No on the war. If we vote no and war comes we will face it. But declaring war with out a military is suicide.

[Icmancin]

I don't support the war ethier. I was just making fulfilling a request from the Defense Minister.

[Ranger99]

The War is obviously NOT going to happen, although I still would like to see a build-up of our forces, this is important as a situation like this one is only beneficial and cannot really hurt us in any way at all. Yet the populace has voted no on it, therefore we will not be going to war agaisnt the German's most likley. Ye tthe main reason for having no war is that we have no military with which to make the assault on the German's lands. Which in all reality is KIND OF true, the 125+62 of our current treasury+whatever we can make off running zero scienece will MOST LIKLEY supply us with the neeeded cash to upgrade our Warriors (Which can be built in very few turns) into Swordsman.

The other reason for no War is the French trooops, My belief is that they're on their way to attack Berlin right now, but that's just my own thoughts, although intelligence points us to beleive that the French are lacking in manpower in the German Theatre at the moment.

So we don't have a war, that proposes a new issue, build-up for a war in the next couple turnchats with Germany, (Berlin will probably be gone by then but...) Or possibly create the RDF, choices, choices, choices.

-Ranger99-

[zyxy]

No war.

Wars are fought for objectives. This poll does not include any objectives, nor does it refer to a specific plan outlining those objectives. In the discussion several objectives were mentioned, with widely varying diplomatic consequences and resource requirements. So which one is it?

Wars are fought with means. Currently we don't have them: no troops, no money for upgrades. How many barracks do we have? There are only vague and wildly varying ideas, but I cannot find a solid plan, no timelines.

[greekguy]

Originally Posted by zyxy

Wars are fought with means. Currently we don't have them: no troops, no money for upgrades. How many barracks do we have? There are only vague and wildly varying ideas, but I cannot find a solid plan, no timelines.

did you not read the TC thread and discussion threads? i have 4 units enqueue for the next TC. civatonia can also build units soon. we will have money for upgrades because of GL and alliance with Rome (if we do it). we can make this war work if we want to and capture the city of Berlin before the Romans get it. it's the peace hippies, who are unwilling to spend a few turns building units, who are killing this war.

it looks an excellent oppurtunity to help our nation will be passed up. :shakehead

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally Posted by greekguy

did you not read the TC thread and discussion threads? i have 4 units enqueue for the next TC. civatonia can also build units soon. we will have money for upgrades because of GL and alliance with Rome (if we do it). we can make this war work if we want to and capture the city of Berlin before the Romans get it. it's the peace hippies, who are unwilling to spend a few turns building units, who are killing this war.

it looks an excellent oppurtunity to help our nation will be passed up. :shakehead

Now, now. Let's not get all riled up. It was I who proposed this idea in the first place, and even I was talked down from it.

Also, we cannot lean on the GL right now because we are maxing our research until we reach Republic. So if I were you, I would take a step back and build the Barracks that you delayed at my request in deference to the Peacenik Library.

[Icmancin]

We should covertly re-arm.... Then publicly announce two chats later!

I am glad to see that Fanatikos has come to senses: Peace rules, unless you have the obvious potential to win by other means.