Questioning Modding

dalek master · Oct 27, 2005, 03:10 AM

Just a quick question. If any of you have bothered to look at this stuff and the files of the game, will you still need heaps of third-party software and in-depth knowledge in computer languages to mod things (units, scenarios etc.) like civ III. I remember downloading a tutorial for making units and discovering how seriously you would have to take it, and you would have to download or buy around 7 different pacakges before you could get anywhere.

Will civ4 still be like this? Can I create new units or found new techs (to a certain standard) without having to use more than 9 programs?

ainwood · Oct 27, 2005, 03:13 AM

Moderator Action: I've moved this to Creation & Customisation - you'll get much better answers there.

dalek master · Oct 27, 2005, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainwood

Moderator Action: I've moved this to Creation & Customisation - you'll get much better answers there.

thanks. I'm a bit new you can tell

the100thballoon · Oct 27, 2005, 05:19 PM

Id like to see this answered so I am gonna bump it.

dalek master · Oct 28, 2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the100thballoon

Id like to see this answered so I am gonna bump it.

waht does "bump" mean?

Liquid-Fire · Oct 28, 2005, 08:28 AM

"bump" means posting in a thread to move or "bump" it up to the top of the list of thread in a forum.

jkp1187 · Oct 28, 2005, 08:50 AM

Isn't a scenario editor supposed to be released in January? I think I'll just pony up the money for that....

WildWeazel · Oct 28, 2005, 06:06 PM

Like with Civ3, the only thing that requires programs is making new graphics. All the gameplay stuff can be done in Notepad- XML, Python, even the World Builder if you want to!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkp1187

Isn't a scenario editor supposed to be released in January? I think I'll just pony up the money for that....

That's the SDK, with the actual source code of the game, which will be for hard-core modders who know C++. It will be a download.

dalek master · Oct 29, 2005, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasel Op

Like with Civ3, the only thing that requires programs is making new graphics. All the gameplay stuff can be done in Notepad- XML, Python, even the World Builder if you want to!

That's the SDK, with the actual source code of the game, which will be for hard-core modders who know C++. It will be a download.

yeah but how much new programs and money will I have to bother with?

The Last Conformist · Oct 29, 2005, 08:47 AM

You shouldn't need more than one gfx app. Not being in the habit of buying gfx apps, I have no idea what it will cost.

Nemo · Oct 29, 2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek master

yeah but how much new programs and money will I have to bother with?

You will just need to learn C++. Not for the weak of heart. Personally, I will not likely use any C++ mods outside of Firaxis generated ones, unless they contain source code, or are from an accredited programmer. The reason being, if you don't know what you are doing (i.e. a professional programmer), you have a great risk of introducing memory issues, security flaws if played online, etc.

As for what you need...you need to go to Borders or B&N and learn about OOP and C++. Then you will need a development environment (a good free one that I used for my classes is devC++: http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html). I don't recall if that comes with the GCC compiler or not (I think it did), if not go to www.gcc.gnu.org and download GCC (devc++ will require it).

WildWeazel · Oct 29, 2005, 04:07 PM

Dev-C++ includes a compiler.

Tarkhan · Oct 29, 2005, 05:35 PM

fortunately, ive got a discount copy of visual studio .net through school, and have knowledge of c++

Im still not sure about modding, and how much needs to be done in code, however. Well, i'm in this forum doing some research at the moment...my first goal is a canadian civ. I know, they used to be british, blah blah. but so did the americans.

Nemo · Oct 30, 2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkhan

fortunately, ive got a discount copy of visual studio .net through school, and have knowledge of c++ ...

Cool. If we use visual studio to mod with the SDK we will be modding in .net managed code. Does anyone know if we will be able to develop stuff with .net (e.g. python .net, c++ .net, etc.)? Like you, I use vs.net, but I don't if we can use it, or not.

BTW, if you can get a hold of vs.net 2005 (it's in RC1, right now), it has incredible advances in XML editing over 2003 or 2003 visual studio versions

homegrown · Oct 30, 2005, 06:33 AM

IMHO, the best thing you can get is to download the full python package at www.python.org. The editor is context sensitive (color coded and tabbed and such), but otherwise, it's just a glorified notepad, but makes a huge difference.

I concur that the creation of new 3D units and animations will be the most painful. There are open source 3D modelers (www.blender.org which also supports *cough* python scripting). What we'll need eventually is export and import plugins for whatever package you are using to get the format used by the game engine.

Rayanth · Oct 30, 2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo

You will just need to learn C++. Not for the weak of heart. Personally, I will not likely use any C++ mods outside of Firaxis generated ones, unless they contain source code, or are from an accredited programmer. The reason being, if you don't know what you are doing (i.e. a professional programmer), you have a great risk of introducing memory issues, security flaws if played online, etc.

As for what you need...you need to go to Borders or B&N and learn about OOP and C++. Then you will need a development environment (a good free one that I used for my classes is devC++: http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html). I don't recall if that comes with the GCC compiler or not (I think it did), if not go to www.gcc.gnu.org and download GCC (devc++ will require it).

not entirely accurate - the game's core engine and AI engine is in C++, but the majority of other things are actually in Python, a totally different programming language. Python and its development suite are totally free.

Nemo · Oct 30, 2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayanth

not entirely accurate - the game's core engine and AI engine is in C++, but the majority of other things are actually in Python, a totally different programming language. Python and its development suite are totally free.

Yeah, but he was asking about the SDK, that is yet to come, which is rumored to be a C++ API for the game's core engine.

Rayanth · Oct 30, 2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo

Yeah, but he was asking about the SDK, that is yet to come, which is rumored to be a C++ API for the game's core engine.

My apologies for skimming/misreading... i'm buried up to my nose in a modding project already

Jon Shafer · Oct 30, 2005, 01:06 PM

As has been mentioned, the only real 3rd party software you need to mod things currently is if you want to change graphics. That being the case, there are a number of programs that can make modding easier - installing Python gives you access to the IDLE editor which is what I used when working on Civ 4. There are a number of editors to help with XML such as XML Spy and XML Shell. There are many others for both Python and XML as well.

Oct 27, 2005, 03:10 AM	#1
dalek master Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Depths of the time war Posts: 336	Questioning Modding Just a quick question. If any of you have bothered to look at this stuff and the files of the game, will you still need heaps of third-party software and in-depth knowledge in computer languages to mod things (units, scenarios etc.) like civ III. I remember downloading a tutorial for making units and discovering how seriously you would have to take it, and you would have to download or buy around 7 different pacakges before you could get anywhere. Will civ4 still be like this? Can I create new units or found new techs (to a certain standard) without having to use more than 9 programs?

Oct 27, 2005, 03:13 AM	#2
ainwood Watching. Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 27,590	Moderator Action: I've moved this to Creation & Customisation - you'll get much better answers there. __________________ Civ5 Tech Support FAQs \| Bug Report Forum \| Tech Support Forum

Oct 27, 2005, 05:19 PM	#4
the100thballoon Emperor Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,239	Id like to see this answered so I am gonna bump it. __________________ Aspire to inspire before you expire.

Oct 28, 2005, 08:50 AM	#7
jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Posts: 2,494	Isn't a scenario editor supposed to be released in January? I think I'll just pony up the money for that.... __________________ JKP1187's Not Just Another NextWar Mod. (update pending) NextWar: Revolutions (update pending) JKP1187's Events Map Scripts: Earth3.py; Terra2.py I am buying a house and starting a new job, so Civ projects are on hold for now. I shall return!

Oct 29, 2005, 08:47 AM	#10
The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Not on your side Posts: 27,780	You shouldn't need more than one gfx app. Not being in the habit of buying gfx apps, I have no idea what it will cost. __________________ Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else? CivIII stuff: Hexette (16x16 World Map), The Classic Maya Scenario, Resource gfx, Other gfx, ACW C3C

Oct 28, 2005, 08:28 AM	#6
Liquid-Fire Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 33	"bump" means posting in a thread to move or "bump" it up to the top of the list of thread in a forum.

Oct 29, 2005, 04:07 PM	#12
WildWeazel Maker of Worlds Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\ Posts: 6,689 Images: 11	Dev-C++ includes a compiler. __________________ Civilization + Minecraft = CIVCRAFT 2.0 Don't have Conquests? Let me help you out. MOD \| FOLD \| BLOG \| TWEET

Oct 29, 2005, 05:35 PM	#13
Tarkhan King Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 771	fortunately, ive got a discount copy of visual studio .net through school, and have knowledge of c++ Im still not sure about modding, and how much needs to be done in code, however. Well, i'm in this forum doing some research at the moment...my first goal is a canadian civ. I know, they used to be british, blah blah. but so did the americans.

Oct 30, 2005, 06:33 AM	#15
homegrown Missionary of Sorenism Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 112	IMHO, the best thing you can get is to download the full python package at www.python.org. The editor is context sensitive (color coded and tabbed and such), but otherwise, it's just a glorified notepad, but makes a huge difference. I concur that the creation of new 3D units and animations will be the most painful. There are open source 3D modelers (www.blender.org which also supports cough python scripting). What we'll need eventually is export and import plugins for whatever package you are using to get the format used by the game engine.

Oct 30, 2005, 01:06 PM	#19
Jon Shafer Conifer Games President Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,049	As has been mentioned, the only real 3rd party software you need to mod things currently is if you want to change graphics. That being the case, there are a number of programs that can make modding easier - installing Python gives you access to the IDLE editor which is what I used when working on Civ 4. There are a number of editors to help with XML such as XML Spy and XML Shell. There are many others for both Python and XML as well. __________________ Check out At the Gates, my new 4X game!

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