LotR17 Dueling Deity

[Vol]

(0) 2000 BC
Looks good, we're in anarchy. I'm not entirely sure about researching Priesthood -> Writing right now. But there aren't any resources around that need mines or pastures, so pushing for research and Calendar (for those Dyes) is probably right. I don't think researching military would do much at this point either.


Our surrounding terrain sure isn't inviting. Desert, Tundra, and Jungle on all the nearby landmasses. But our opponent is facing the same thing.

Checking the Top 5 Cities (F9), we can see that India is our opponent. Spiritual and Industrious. Sounds like we're going to lose all the Wonders, and Great People from those Wonders will be popping out like mad. These traits are important to keep in mind.

(1) 1960 BC
Some features of the game lose their value in a 1v1 Deity game:



I switch one of our grassland forest (2/1/0) tiles at Washington to the lake (2/0/3).

(2) 1920 BC Nothing.
(3) 1880 BC Nothing.
(4) 1840 BC
Work Boat finishes in Washington. On any other difficulty level, I'd probably go with a Lighthouse, which would build at +125% (Organized building Lighthouse + Organized Religion), however the Deity happy limit makes it pointless to pursue more food right now. Galley it is, in 10 turns (ugh). The workboat heads to the other New York fish, will take 3 turns.

(5) 1800 BC Nothing.
(6) 1760 BC
Priesthood comes in. Spock reads some Bible verses to me. Still see no reason to pursue worker techs or military techs. With Writing and Libraries, those techs will come quicker anyway. So Writing it is (in 10).

Work Boat builds Fishing Boats on the Fish. New York is ready to be a Worker/Settler factory as soon as it finishes the Lighthouse in 7.

(7) 1720 BC Nothing.
(8) 1680 BC Nothing.
(9) 1640 BC Nothing.
(10) 1600 BC New York grows to size 3, has one unhealthiness, but we have 6 excess food and 3 shields hammers.
(11) 1560 BC Nothing.

(12) 1520 BC
Hinduism spreads to New York, which would have been nice a few turns back to get the building bonus with Organized Religion on the Lighthouse. Oh well, we'll still get the border-expanding bonus from the culture as well as the happy face.

(13) 1480 BC
New York completes its Lighthouse. Worker next. Can choose between working the plains forest (1/2/0) or ocean (2/0/3). With the forest, there's 8 excess food + 3 hammers going towards a Worker (60 required = 6 turns, steady state), and 7 commerce (8 with the +1 from trade route). With the ocean tile, there's 9 excess food + 1 hammer for the Worker production (an even 10 per turn works well for 60 and 100 "hammer" Workers and Settlers), and gives 10 commerce (11 with trade).

With hammer overflow, the forest tile could shave one turn off the Settler 160 "hammer/food" from now. Shaving one turn off of a 15 turn production cycle doesn't seem worth the +3 commerce. So we work the ocean tile.

(14) 1440 BC
Here's a shot of New York:


Washington produces the Galley, and I queue up another one. I send this galley to explore to the south, which seems more promising than the frozen north (despite looking heavily jungled [I don't think thats a word]).

Our "rival" continues to grab religions. Thank Vishnu we got Hinduism!

Confucianism comes with Code of Laws, which requires Writing + Priesthood, so its only one tech ahead of us.

(15) 1400 BC
Writing comes in. Spock lectures me on glory.

I definitely don't feel like researching something that will take a dozen turns or more. I first think about Pottery for Granaries and Cottages, which requires Wheel first and doesn't lead to anything (besides Writing), but in the very near term (<10 turns) I don't see us building either. On the other hand, I do see us possibly chopping a forest in the very near term, and needing a strong unit like Axemen and wanting to know where Copper is, so I select Mining in 4 with the goal of Bronze Working.

I could switch the Galley at Washington to a Library in 15 turns, but I think we really need two boats (one for exploring another for hauling units). After the second galley though, I think we have to get the Library in Washington (will get +25% on 11 research, which should be +2 after round-down).

Galley exploring to the south seems to indicate the southern island is likely larger than ours, but equally appealing (jungle instead of desert).

(16) 1360 BC
Imhotep is born in a far away land. No surprise from a Spiritual, Industrious, Deity opponent. Will be interesting to see if another religion is founded next turn (one common use for an early Prophet).

(17) 1320 BC Nothing.
(18) 1280 BC
Pyramids complete in a far away land (F9 shows it is Delhi again, which has Stonehedge, Oracle, and Pyramids).

(19) 1240 BC
Mining comes in. Bronze Working in 7.

Worker finishes in New York. Start on a Settler in 10. I send the Worker towards Washington.

(20) 1200 BC
Here's the world as we know it:

The southern island should be able to support a number of (fishing) villages. I think finding ways to get hammers is going to be major theme of this game.

--- The Save ---

I strongly recommend using Windowed mode (instead of Full Screen) if you find the Alt-Tab delay to be too annoying to write good turnlogs. Windowed mode eliminates the delay entirely (however you seem to lose edge-of-screen scrolling).

Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031
Vol - just played
bed_head7 - Up now! (10 turns)
grahamiam - on deck

[bed_head7]

Got it. Will try to do physics for an hour or so before playing, so there is some time to comment, if necessary. Not that I see much to discuss at the moment.

[bed_head7]

1080 BC (3) - Worker starts farming the rice.

1040 BC (4) - Galley in Washington finishes. As it is at its health limit until rice is hooked up, start on one more galley. Once we have rice connected, the settler will complete faster.

975 BC (6) - Finish Bronze Working, start The Wheel for roads. We have copper just outside Washington.

925 BC (8) - Great Lighthouse completed by Gandhi.

900 BC (9) - New York finishes settler, starts a worker.

875 BC (10) - We learn the Wheel. Start on Animal Husbandry, but it is very vetoable. so we can build camps Worker starts roading the rice.

I left the galley with settler unmoved, so we can decide if we would rather go for horses or for ivory.

[Vol]

I think we're going to have to balance the needs for a Library in Washington with having enough defenses that Gandhi doesn't immediately attack due to being such an easy target.

With grahamiam out until Sunday night, its Arathorn's call on whether to skip or not.

I look forward to the next players decision-making process on selecting our next city site. Productivity? Resources? Luxuries?

[Arathorn]

We're going to wait for grahamiam, as Sunday night is just a few hours away at this point. I couldn't have played anyway. That's one quick pace you guys set!

As for strategy, I think happiness will be huge. A luxury resource lets every single city we can connect grow one size larger and still be valuable. That's going to have to be very important. With nearly everything coastal for connections, we migth be able to wait a LONG time before doing Wheel and roads. And health will be nice, as will productive cities, but I think luxuries are quite important.

I would also get a third and, possibly even a fourth, galley out there exploring. Knowledge of the land will be critical, as we decide what city spots can't wait, which we could potentially afford to lose, and where our foe may be coming from.

Arathorn

[bed_head7]

I already researched The Wheel so I could hook up the rice with the capital and New York, since they needed the health badly. I agree on building extra galleys, though.

[eotinb]

Originally Posted by Vol

I strongly recommend using Windowed mode (instead of Full Screen) if you find the Alt-Tab delay to be too annoying to write good turnlogs. Windowed mode eliminates the delay entirely (however you seem to lose edge-of-screen scrolling).

lurker's comment: Check out Civilization4.ini in the CIV directory (the one with the saves, etc.) and change this setting:

; Allow Mouse Scrolling in Windowed mode
MouseScrolling = 0

to 1.

[Vol]

Ooh, now there's never a reason to not play in Windowed mode!
(Note, make sure you turn off Always On Top on your Windows Taskbar if you want to avoid part of your screen being trimmed off)

[Tarkeel]

wait a LONG time before doing Wheel and roads

Don't forget you need it for Pottery and granaries though, which might not be worth it here. Hard to say really.

[Bezhukov]

Granaries also give a health boost, as do harbors.

[Vol]

Health isn't nearly the problem that Happiness is on Deity.

[grahamiam]

sorry, weekend was a bit longer than expected

will play and post tonight.

[Mark1031]

For happy we need to get to monarchy for the MPs This will allow us to grow bigger before lux are on line. We also are organized so this expensive civic will cost less and if we don’t hook up the copper we can build cheap warriors for MP. We will be very shield poor at least in our starting lands. I hope we don’t meet Gandi too soon. I think now we need to get as much growth and research going so that we can keep up in tech. Having only 1 deity opponent may actually be harder since he will get all the religions and wonders and we will have no allies. I do think when we meet him we will have to be prepared to take him on in war frequently to knock him down a few notches. War civic goals are Monarchy, Vassalage, Theocracy. Expensive civics but we are organized.

I will be away from the 10th –the 16th. Since the game does not work on my laptop please skip me if I’m up in that time. I will be able to peak in on progress.

[Vol]

Interesting idea on the copper. I agree with a Fin/Org leader, we should see just how much damage we can do with Vassalage/Theocracy.

We could also consider trying to get the "circumnavigation" +1 boat movement bonus. Although this would almost certainly entail meeting Gandhi, it might be very useful in the long run.

[grahamiam]

right now, the choice is ivory or horses, right? At least for the galley settler. imho, going for the ivory seems best for the happy faces. I'll play in about an hour, so chime in if you disagree with me

[Arathorn]

I agree on the ivory as our probable highest priority.

The extra +1 movement from circumnavigation is nice. And avoiding Gandhi can only happen for so long. I just think we're a long ways from that right now. We need to scout our immediate area first and get our core set of cities up and running well before we go off on that tangent.

Arathorn

[grahamiam]

Preflight check: Move the galley and see baldy


Well, there goes the neighborhood Crap, he has a city on the ivory island. Well, settler jumped off already.



T1: 850BC It’s probably suicide, but I settle Boston near the ivory -> warrior. Well, now we get to find out how aggressive the AI can be.

Don’t know if it’s a bug or not, but the galley SE of our capitol can no longer move E


IBT: Washington galley -> warrior

T2: 825BC Can’t build a road on the rice??? It’s also still not connected to the cities even though the farm is done? Move worker to forest to road. Maybe that will connect it.

IBT:

T3: 800BC galleys are exploring a bit. I am trying to keep 2 near our island to fend off any possible attack.

IBT:

T4: 775BC Washington warrior -> warrior. Ok, now that the road is finished, the rice is connected to Washington and all other cities.

IBT: Boston warrior -> oblisk (I want some quick culture); New York warrior -> finish worker (3T)

T5: 750BC galleys are still exploring

Washington warrior -> settler

T6: 725BC Move warrior out of Washington towards NY

IBT: Ghandi offers open borders. I accept to improve relations and I don’t see anything specifically against it in the rules. We want to survive for a little while, right?
Animal Husbandry -> Hunting (so we can build a camp on the ivory)

T7: 700BC I mine the copper. We need something better than warriors

New York worker -> Hindu Temple

IBT:

T8: 675BC Move new worker on galley over towards Boston. Will drop off next turn.

T9: 650BC Workers begin roading the ivory (2T); Hunting due in 2T as well

T10: 625BC Move galley out of Boston to scout more Indian territory. This galley must go back to New York to fetch the settler (due in 7T). Start sending it back next turn.
Western galley finds more purple border.

Indians are way ahead, and seem very large. The settlement on our ivory island is just a remote colony, not the main island, which just shows how fast he has expanded on this map.

[Zavior]

grahamiam, may I ask, how did you get that blue and violet in there?

[grahamiam]

Originally Posted by Zavior

grahamiam, may I ask, how did you get that blue and violet in there?

zoom all the way out, then click on the button over the minimap that has a picture of a person praying purple musical note

[Arathorn]

Don’t know if it’s a bug or not, but the galley SE of our capitol can no longer move E

There be dragons there!!! No one dare go east any further.

(It's the edge of the map. A fair number of these "MP" maps (designed primarily for multi-player) don't wrap. That is, the world's flat, not cylindrical, like all worlds we know and love, except the oddity that is the Earth. Who ever heard of a spherical world? )

Well, with contact with Gandhi, we can hopefully get some idea where he is techwise. Just how far behind are we? We can also get some better information from F8/F9, I think. We should be able to tell just how big and populous he is. That's useful scouting information, I think. Does anybody know how far down the list of names Bangalore is for India?

Roster:
Arathorn - Up now! (10 turns) [errr...will get it when I'm home from work]
Mark1031 - on deck
Vol - just played
bed_head7
grahamiam

Well, we survived one full round of the roster. Better than at least one earlier LotR game! Let's go for two.

Arathorn