SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

[Paul#42]

Originally Posted by jeffelammar

Letting India take as many northern cities as he wants (like hareid or the other ones mentioned) might drop our research to 5 or 6 turns, but It would accellerate India's conquering of our homeland. I think that would be a valid tradeoff.

I second that.

[Jove]

Ok. The farting elephant award is for whoever gets Ghandi to build Apollo first, right? So will our rapid science get us there faster, or Ghandi's expansion?
I figure, if we can do both, why not? I got it, I'll try to get the Laser in 3, build the mentioned buildings, and encourage Ghandi-AI to explore strange new lands.
Hmmm, I think Ghandi's people are all sad and that's why they're starving. Getting him some lux has got to be a priority.
I'll keep checking in if there is any more advice.
Edit= switching all the taxmen puts us at -192gpt. We only have 93g. I'll keep fiddling with it...

[pindicator]

I've been thinking along those lines as well jeff. I think the ideal we need to strive for is to have India finish conquering our continent right as our research has finished. To that extent, we probably want to start letting them out now! To offset the losses in research (somewhat) we will have to go after Brennus sooner.

How many turns do you we think it would take India to conquer the entire home continent if we let them out now? 20 turns? 30? It's an exponential curve; once they have our core conquered I imagine they could continue grabbing northern cities at a faster pace. How many turns of space parts research do we still have left? (My thinking is going w/o looking at the save recently, so it may all be chaff in the wind.)

But I believe that would be far faster and more efficient than researching 4-turn techs and only then letting India out.

[denyd]

Bad News:

My company has decided that Civilization is a game (not an obsession) and has blocked access for me while I'm at work. So I'll only be able to add my insightful coments from 6pm til midnight pacific time.

As for our current situation, in about 10-12 turns we'll be able to evacuate all of our forces to the Celtic islands and just keep build MA in our core cities. Eventually Gandhi will send a unit to take Channel City and then we can let him have pretty much everything else.

A caution, I think the Osman is thinking about some of our undefended cities, so we'll need to keep him boxed in. Maybe we should gift him one of those island cities and once Gandhi has rode the elevator, kick Osman off Gandhi's island.

One more thought before dinner. Should we consider that earlier plan to get Gandhi to start the Manhattan Project and then snatch it from him so he will switch over to the Apollo Program?

I'll check back later.

[Jove]

Ok, it looks like the consensus is to let science go a little bit and encourage India's expansion. I'll still try to get the science fast of course.
With the Manhattan Project, my guess is that it'll be a long time before it is much of an issue. But then, sure, one more way to make ourselves comfortable.

[Jove]

Here's the save: Jeffelammar_SG009_AD1425_01.SAV

I played just 5 turns. I don't seem to have any time lately and don't want to slow things down for Pindicator.

Pre-flight check- Play with Scientists. MM for Science. Switch Bergen, Odense, Reykjavik to worker.
Disband for aquaduct, university in Karistad, courthouse.

Ibt- Celts have some destroyers.
MA Trondheim -> MA. Worker Bergen -> MA. Court New Hareid -> Police Station. Worker Reykjavik -> MA. MA Oslo -> MA. MA Stavanger -> MA. Aquaduct New Stockholm -> Harbor. Worker Odense -> MA. Market Rusciade -> University. University Karistad -> Market.

1) Re-base a bomber to Celtland. Sell Economics to Otto for 22g. Sell Ivory to Brennus for 24g.
Load an army with MA, station it outside Entremont.
Load workers into Delhi, elsewhere. Sattelites in 2.
Re-base about half our Celtic bombers to the airbase in case the city flips...

Ibt- Courthouse Istanbul -> Police Station. Mech Inf CC -> MA. Library New Molde -> Harbor.
Pollution strikes 3 times, but I joined all those workers...

2) Start shipping some workers from Spain back home. Airlift back and forth...
Y'know, Nuclear Power is the cheapest required tech left, so we'll go for that next.
Starve for some Spanish specialists, but only a little, for a small beaker surplus.

Ibt- Learn Satellites, start on Nuclear Power.
Airport Hareid -> Cavalry. Commercial Dock Batsfjord -> Bank.

3) We're going to research Superconductor next. It's in 5, but my hope is we'll increase our beakers enough in that time to get Nuclear Power in 4 (with SETI). So, fire many scientists, earn a small profit.

Ibt- Spot some Celt flak.
India finally moves an Archer north.
MA Trondheim -> MA. MA Bergen -> MA. Courthouse Almarikh -> Worker. Army Stockholm -> Army. MA Stavanger -> MA. MA Bodo -> Wealth.

4) Celts have learned Fascism. That's just like them!
Stockholm suddenly can't build an army in 4 without starving. I'll build a 'fast' one and spend some food in case it goes away.
Aarhaus is size 3! I'm steering them toward Bodo rather than Odense, for the science savings.
Do some disbanding for a University.

Ibt- Brennus offers to renew 11gpt for lux. I agree rather than get nothing.
New Alesund, in Old Spain, deposes to the Celts!! Lose 1 infantryman.
MA CC -> MA. MA Reykjavik -> Cruiser. MA Oslo -> MA. University Uskadar -> Worker. MA Odense -> MA. Commercial Dock Hovd -> Wealth. Factory Risor -> Carrier.

5) Trade Spices to Celts for 22gpt.
Move more troops to Celtic lands. We're now Strong against them.

Notes- There's an extra tundra airfield up north if you need to use it.
There are a lot of workers around Stockholm that are still active if you want to draft or join them...
I don't know why Stockholm can't do 100spt without starving. Maybe the corruption fluctuated, I just don't know.
India's archer is headed north, keep an eye on him!

[Paul#42]

Originally Posted by Jove

India's archer is headed north, keep an eye on him!

Could someone please post a screeny?!?

Stockholm used to get 106 spt, six of them corrupt. Did they increase?

I think we should let Gandhi take all inland cities north of Arhus, now. Some of them do some good research but we can use the cash from selling their cult improvements and Gandhi would feel better to have a more compact core...

[TimBentley]

denyd's save was from 1450 AD.

[Paul#42]

Originally Posted by Jove

Here's the save: Jeffelammar_SG009_AD1425_01.SAV

Originally Posted by TimBentley

denyd's save was from 1450 AD.

fighting so concentrated that you did not realize we'd already been there?

That's the bad habit of not posting screenshots after work!

[jeffelammar]

Crud. If you look at the Maintainence Thread, you will see what happened here.

Deny must have tried to upload, had it fail and so he attached the save to the thread.

Jove then grabbed the Save from the Upload Server and hence the duplicate.

Since Deny's came first, I think that we need to get that save to replace Jove's and then give Jove the option of taking his five to ten turns from the correct place.

I've IM'ed Alan in case there is something special we have to do to unwind this honest misunderstanding.

[AlanH]

I've removed the reference to Jove's 1425 save. Upload Denyd's file and move on from there any way you see fit. Sorry for helping to create the problem.

[jeffelammar]

Originally Posted by Jove

I don't know why Stockholm can't do 100spt without starving. Maybe the corruption fluctuated, I just don't know.

It did the same thing to me on my turns. Guess I should have taken the time to figure out why, but by the end of my turnset it was stable at 106 (100 uncorrupt) again.

[pindicator]

Okay Jove, looks like you're still up No worries, my cousin's birthday is tomorrow so I won't be ready until the weekend anyway.

[denyd]

That was my fault - I tried three times to upload the file and it never finished, just the page not found message, so I attached the file. I should have mentioned it on my post

[Jove]

Well dern it! I checked the mainenence thread before I started, it said the last save was 1400, and by coincidence that's the last one I downloaded a few days ago. I'm retarded!

Okay, I guess I'll take another 5 or 10. I thought I remembered Tim talking about the Laser and not Satellites...

[Jove]

Here's the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sg..._AD1475_01.SAV

OK, not too complicated, but I'd rather turn in 5 now that make you all wait another day.

Pre-Flight Check: What year is this?
Block In India's archer to send him East. Remove defenders from cities there, add defenders in Western cities. Re-distribute bombers and some units for better defense.
Adjust for Laser in 3.
Disband a few size 12 cities for some Spanish infrastructure.
Join some slaves where they can make productive citizens. Move to ship (some) slaves back to main continent.
Guard towns against Otto.

Ibt- Otto's units retreat.
India's legendarily brave archer attacks our MA and dies.
Pollution. Continue building MA's.
New Odense Aquaduct -> Market.

1) Join some workers in India.
Airlift some MA's to Celtland, fill in defenders at home. Draft maybe 3 units.
Switch coastal Spanish cities from Library to Court for dom limit.
Celts have Espionage. Between Electronics and Mass Production, I think Mass Production is the better trade. I don't want Civil Defense in every Celt city! And we aren't very boat-dependent. So... MP for Espionage. I guess we need the Intelligence Center to plant spies.

Ibt- Otto moves back into our territory.
Continue with the MA's. Army Stockholm-> Army. Offshore Platform Molde-> Airport. Offshore Platform Rusciade -> Destroyer? Aquaduct -> Harbor, New Birka. Aquaduct New Svolvaer -> Harbor.

2) Stockholm is losing shields again. A Nuclear Plant could be nice, but I'm going for another Army at this time.
Join a few workers, use some to try to bait Ghandi.

Ibt- The Laser. Start on Robotics.
Aquaduct Delhi -> Market. Continue building MA's. Settler, Neu Trondheim -> Wealth? Bomber -> Bomber Hareid. University Tromoso -> Commercial Dock. University Karistad-> Market.

3) More worker transport. We can hit Robotics in 5 at -38gpt and counting.
Stockholm seems to have recovered it's shields. Whatever.

Ibt- The trade embargo against us from India and Ottomans has ended.
Celts reinforce in their southlands.
Continue with MA's, start 1 carrier. University Uscka -> Police Station. Aquaduct New Stockholm -> Harbor. Airport Molde -> Destroyer. Courthouse Molde -> Harbor.

4) Bump India up to 11. Land some more settlers.
Station another Modern Army in Brennus' land.
Otto has built a Rifleman.

Ibt- Continue with MA's. Police Station Haugesund -> Bank?
We lose our supply of wool and wines.

5) The expiration of our deal with Brennus means we're now at -119gpt. We can still get Robotics in 5 at that rate, but then we'll be broke.
Disband a little more for a market in Delhi.

Notes- There's a few active workers near Molde if you want to use them.
-The Celts are starting to not seem so big.
-Besides attacking our MA with an archer, Ghandi didn't do anything this whole turnset.
-It doesn't look like we'll hit the dom limit, but I'm avoiding anything that will expand the borders of Spain.
-It'd be easy to build some airfields in Spain to import a token defense.
-Our science is bound to slow down, let's just do it gracefully.

[CKS]

Looks good. I'm glad to see that the Celts finally learned espionage. Let's work on getting a spy planted with India.

Can we get the Celts to give us anything good, like a big pile of money? If not, it may be time to start our invasion and take the luxes for ourselves. We can always abandon some tundra cities if we need to to stay under the limit.

[Paul#42]

Originally Posted by Jove

Disband a few size 12 cities for some Spanish infrastructure.

Originally Posted by Jove

Ibt- [...] India's legendarily brave archer attacks our MA and dies.

We seem to have trouble directing Gandhi. I'd like to discuss that as it is a major key to our success.
Was that archer injured? Should we redline any unit and block it's way back? Or would he stay where he is right then?

Originally Posted by Jove

Celts have Espionage. Between Electronics and Mass Production, I think Mass Production is the better trade. I don't want Civil Defense in every Celt city! And we aren't very boat-dependent. So... MP for Espionage. I guess we need the Intelligence Center to plant spies.

Fine, Finally Brennus cooperates

Originally Posted by Jove

Ibt- Otto moves back into our territory.

We should either block his town with slaves or declare and shave him to one redlined unit.

Originally Posted by Jove

Ibt- Continue with MA's. Police Station Haugesund -> Bank?
We lose our supply of wool and wines.

5) The expiration of our deal with Brennus means we're now at -119gpt.

That would have been a nice moment to trade MP for Espionage, lux and gpt
Now we need to decide whether to trade Electronics or MT to Brennus - I suggest trading Electronics, otherwise he would be too fast researching MT on his own...

[Jove]

'Disbanding size 12 cities in Spain...' I was talking about places where the city was size 12 and the foodbox was full, so drafting would only decrease the population for 1 turn. We got an aquaduct and some other goodies...
As far as the trades go, I checked every turn. It is possible there is some trick I overlooked, but I think the Celts were tired of paying gpt. Sometimes the AI just dry up. Hmmm, seriously, was there a way to avoid that?
The archer. No, he wasn't injured. Should he have been? Looks like maybe, yes. Crap.

[jeffelammar]

Looks good Jove.

Originally Posted by Jove

As far as the trades go, I checked every turn. It is possible there is some trick I overlooked, but I think the Celts were tired of paying gpt. Sometimes the AI just dry up. Hmmm, seriously, was there a way to avoid that?

Probably not. Once they allocate their gold to science you have to wait for them to change their allocation in order to get the gpt back.

The only reason we were keeping Brennus strong was so he could pay GPT. If he won't do that, we should set up for an immediate attack. We can keep cities to keep us just under the domination limit. If we turn his citizens into scientists it will help more than a Brennus who won't pay.

Nice of him to finally research one of the techs we wanted him to though.