The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa

[Cloner4000]

One of the Blue-civ citys cultural flop to me and I was surprise when it had an option to "Airlift" it, although there are no other airports though. LOL

[dreadknought]

Ok , I finally won with Ethipio with over 5k culture at the end of 200 turns but Ayyubids had more victory points . I had more than 1000 culture points than Ayyubids and at the end the game said I had suffered a embarrasing defeat? Ayyubids also had 25% of POP at the end, so Im confused how the apparent tie is being scored here.

[Plotinus]

Well, you have to have more than twice the culture rating of your closest rival in order to win a Culture Victory, so it sounds like although you got enough culture, Saladin was too close behind to let you win. So I suppose he won on VP. Damned Saladin!

[Sildo]

This scenario is incredable Its replay value is huge.
Some notes, I played one game as a trade rout nation and it was pretty good until the entire world declared war on me, I don't know why, I hadn't been bugging anyone and had been trading teritory maps.
I played my next game at the Ethiopian rebles. By 1048 Etheopia was no more. To me the rebles seem to strong to start out with, but if the AI played them they might be too weak. The only idea I have is to give then a bunch of swordmen, put them right next to the city they should take first and give the a settaler in a non game play area stuck on non sttelable terrain.
I played on Emperor level.

GREAT mod, simpliy fantastic.

[EDaddy]

I just want to say that I've played a lot of scenarios in the past 3 weeks, but I like your scenario the best!!! It's a breath of fresh air to play -- aside from Saladin!!!

Isn't there any way to handicap Saladin? The same goes for the Adals too, I think they are too difficult too!!! And I would like to see the AI actively participate in the trade battle too. Other than that, it is a great scenario.

P.S. You're absolutely right about Malakwa. Although Alwah has the "fast worker", Malakwa is MUCH easier to play than Alwah!!!

[EuropeanFury]

Great scenario... played as Alwah and conquered part of Falasha and all of Beja before being completely obliterated by Makuria, Adal, Ayyubids and Hausa... who were the worst with those darn things that run into your land and ruin your land!!!

[EDaddy]

Well, I beat the game as Makuria. I signed an alliance against Hafsids and they proceeded to sign an alliance with Kamen against me. I eventually raided all of the Kamen cities but one with Hausa wiping out Kamen. I then signed a mutual agreement with Ayybids which drew me in a war against Falasha. After failing to get a diplomatic win the first time with the Baqt, I wiped Falasha out of the game!!!

I then made friends with Songhai & Hafsids and got a diplomatic victory on my second try with 18 turns left on the clock!!! Boy, do i love this scenario!!!

[Plotinus]

Thanks for the comments, all!

[EDaddy] That's great! The first reported win as Makuria (I never managed it - always lost the popularity contest to Saladin...). Interesting that a diplomatic win is possible with such warmongering.

Now, of course the challenge is to win as each playable civ in turn...

[EDaddy]

Originally Posted by Plotinus

Thanks for the comments, all!

[EDaddy] That's great! The first reported win as Makuria (I never managed it - always lost the popularity contest to Saladin...). Interesting that a diplomatic win is possible with such warmongering.

Now, of course the challenge is to win as each playable civ in turn...

Well, just so you know, the only two times I was at a major war was vs. Kamen and vs. Falasha. Most of the time, I was at peace trying to make friends every chance I got. If I was at war the entire game, there is no way you can get a diplomatic victory. But signing alliances and mutual agreements is key to making friendship but once you do, you'll get thrown in a war you don't expect (like the war vs. Kamen). I expected to go to war eventually vs. Falasha, since I had a mutual agreement with Ayybids and the Ayybids' target at that time were the Falashas. It's ironic though that I dealt the final blow after all the damage the Ayybids did to Falasha.

After the first attempt on confirming the Baqt, I observed who abstained and quickly made more friends -- particually with the abstainers. Eliminating Falasha eliminated one vote entirely. Ethopia and Ghana were eliminated very early in the game. As you know, Kamen was mostly eliminated by me, but I was stupid to sign a peace treaty for them when I could of finished them off. Fortunately, Hausa did just that!!! Beja was almost eliminated, but not quite. I then gave 100 gold to Hafsids just before the vote and they probably voted for me too. And yes I was up against Saladin, but since Saladin was at the heat of war most of the time and made most of the civs mad, he got very little in the way of votes.

P.S. On a side note, Hausa did a very good job in their attempt to dominate North Africa!!! I love to see the AI "play the game"!

[Nanocyborgasm]

I tried my hand as the Kanem-Bornu empire. I started out ok until the Ayyubids, my nemesis in every game, launched a totally unprovoked attack on me, while I was in the middle of a very successful war against Makuria. As a result, I had to yield one city to Saladin, and cancel the war against Makuria so that I could defend myself from the Ayyubids. Later in the game, I captured an Ouddai city by culture flip, and then decided to take out the Songhai, which I largely did. Unfortunately, I had the same problem, namely that another faction declared war on me while I was in the middle of another war. Adal declared war, but this time I was able to keep nearly all of my holdings. In the 16th century, I decided to take out Alwah, as I had gotten a leader and formed a Kanuri cavalry army out of it. The effort was very successful, but I still lost to the Hausa on VP.

[EDaddy]

Originally Posted by Nanocyborgasm

I tried my hand as the Kanem-Bornu empire. I started out ok until the Ayyubids, my nemesis in every game, launched a totally unprovoked attack on me, while I was in the middle of a very successful war against Makuria. As a result, I had to yield one city to Saladin, and cancel the war against Makuria so that I could defend myself from the Ayyubids. Later in the game, I captured an Ouddai city by culture flip, and then decided to take out the Songhai, which I largely did. Unfortunately, I had the same problem, namely that another faction declared war on me while I was in the middle of another war. Adal declared war, but this time I was able to keep nearly all of my holdings. In the 16th century, I decided to take out Alwah, as I had gotten a leader and formed a Kanuri cavalry army out of it. The effort was very successful, but I still lost to the Hausa on VP.

I tried my hand at the Kanem nations (Hausa) one time and I did horribly!!! Its hard to keep up in technology while waging a war!!! Futhermore I had 300+ gold and Kanem declared war on me taking away 3 of my cities. When i declared peace all of the 300+ gold was gone!!! Basically, there was no recovery from that!

What really annoys me about the Kanem nations is that you get NO workers at the start of the game. That means you have to keep expanding and expanding and if you don't, you'll go bankrupt!!! I do better playing a trade or Nubian nation myself.

[Plotinus]

You definitely need to develop a new way of playing for these civs. Obviously you need to research Nomadism first, and then make a beeline for stables and build them everywhere. Build cities close together, and expand, expand, expand - by peaceful means or not! Then you can choose whether to go for the "jihad" branch of the tech tree and continue this policy by even more violent methods, or make a beeline for Agriculture and build up some infrastructure instead. Somehow, the first option always seems more fun...

[Nanocyborgasm]

I've been playing many games of this scenario, and have come up with some tips on how to get the most out of it.

The West African factions are the easiest to play, especially Mali. You play them the same way as any other C3C game. Try to make a beeline to Trade, so that you can build Wangara traders and take your trade goods to the trading posts along the Mediterranean. I've noticed that, for some reason, the trading post near Alexandria is rarely occupied by foreign camel units, so try to head that way. Trade goods are produced frequently, so you don't have to research every path just so you can trade all the types of goods.

The central African factions are more of a challenge, because you can't build workers to link up your cities and resources. Instead, you have stables that do that. Start out by researching nomadism, so that you can build nomads (settlers) and so that you can change to the nomadic federation gov't. Then go for dyes and the tech that enables stables (can't remember which that is). The easiest faction to play here is the Kanem-Bornu. They have access to horses from the beginning, which will allow you to build their all-powerful Kanuri cavalry, once you research plundering (which should be last to research, after the above). Since you can't build roads until late in the game, try to build all your cities right on top of luxury or strategic resources. This will allow you to share them to all your cities through the stables improvement. Try to seize any source of indigo early on, because you can build dye pits all over your empire by linking indigo to all your cities through the stables . This will increase your gpt as well as culture, which is otherwise hard to come by with these factions.

The Nubian factions are very difficult to play. As they're intended to be peaceful builders, just concentrate on cranking out settlers and workers as early as possible. You will need to have good roads so that your nubian archers can run around and hold off any possible invasions.

The Falasha and Ethiopians are also difficult to play, as they're essentially constantly locked in war against someone. As Falasha, try to take out at least the major, non-mountainous Ethiopian cities early. Focus research on military sciences to keep up. Make sure to appease the Adalians with sycophantic gestures if necessary. As Ethiopia, don't wait for the Falasha to attack you. If you see any opening, attack them. They will have few defenders. It will not be easy to defend your cities early on, so always be on the offensive. The same goes for the Adalians. They'll be in locked war throughout the game. I've had an interesting game as the Ethiopians where I took out the Falasha early and then conquered half of Adal.

That's about all the advice I have.

Btw, I just finished a game as the Kanem-Bornu, again, and this time I won by VP. Almost made it to domination victory, but only had 20%/25% of the map.

Plotinus, I don't think I've ever had a single game where I have reached past 2/3 of the tech tree. Is this intentional?

[Nanocyborgasm]

Originally Posted by EDaddy

What really annoys me about the Kanem nations is that you get NO workers at the start of the game. That means you have to keep expanding and expanding and if you don't, you'll go bankrupt!!! I do better playing a trade or Nubian nation myself.

See my advice below. The trick is to settle right on top of the resources and build stables to connect them.

The Hausa and Ouddai are difficult to play if you try to be a warmonger. The Hausa's UU is the Fulani spearthrower, which can be useful against the other factions, since then have only a defense of 2, but without roads, they are slow-moving. The Ouddai are left as the peaceful building civ for the central Africans. Their UU is the Maba spearman, which has a defense of 3. Like I said, there are no roads as these civs, so you have to be careful going to war, as it'll take forever to reach the enemy frontier, and if they come at you from elsewhere, you can find your whole empire in ruins in no time.

[EDaddy]

Originally Posted by Nanocyborgasm

See my advice below. The trick is to settle right on top of the resources and build stables to connect them.

The Hausa and Ouddai are difficult to play if you try to be a warmonger. The Hausa's UU is the Fulani spearthrower, which can be useful against the other factions, since then have only a defense of 2, but without roads, they are slow-moving. The Ouddai are left as the peaceful building civ for the central Africans. Their UU is the Maba spearman, which has a defense of 3. Like I said, there are no roads as these civs, so you have to be careful going to war, as it'll take forever to reach the enemy frontier, and if they come at you from elsewhere, you can find your whole empire in ruins in no time.

Yeah, I know all about that. I learned that the hard way. I had a good Hausa game going and had to start over, because my cities weren't right on the resources. Also, no workers means low commerence, low production, and as you pointed out, slow travel. Even so, the Kanem nations are stil hard to play. Although you claim that the Nubian nations are hard, I enjoyed playing the Nubian nations more than I did the Kanem nations. Just my opinion.

[Nanocyborgasm]

It's just a matter of style. Maybe I'll try my hand as a Nubian faction next time.

What I forgot to mention was that you have to avoid trading maps and communications throughout the game. The reason is that you don't want the Arab factions learning about you or your location as long as possible, because it is inevitable that they will try to bully you and you won't be able to do much about it. If you do get into contact with them, try to be as obsequeous as possible. Make ROP agreements and trade agreements, just for the heck of it.

[dreadknought]

Recorded a win with the Hausaland (monarch/most ag.).

VP win 27015--Falasha next closest 10330-----Turn 189

20% pop only 9% of area---

Key was who I picked to fight/tight city set-up/keeping ayyubids on my good side.

Will try another as time permits.

Are you working on anything else along these lines as far as historicals go?

[Plotinus]

Excellent work! We've had recorded wins now from all five groups, though not from all playable civs...

I'm not planning any more scenarios for the time being, having made the two that I really wanted to do. However, I am putting the final touches to the revised version of "The Rood...", which I'm quite pleased with and which I think looks much better than the original, so watch out for that.

[Abaddon]

looks like another winner! consider it downloaded

[EDaddy]

I played as Kanem yesterday and built dye pits in every city. Once the units starting popping out, I had financial troubles.

Oh, BTW, I found some bugs in the scenario. For Divine Monarchy, you are supposed to get 8 free units/city, but according to the military advisor, you only get 2 free units a city. This really ruined my game plan!!!

Also on the Nomadic Freedom government, it says that the max rate is 80% yet the slider won't slide beyond 60%! This really discourages me from playing a Kanem nation in the first place!