2050 Bc - 1550 Bc

[Blkbird]

I see there is a poll about next research goal.

@Stilgar08: You really should post a hint in the discussion thread (here) when you set up a poll.

[Chieftess]

hmm, looking at the screenshots, lemme give some advice...

1 - I wouldn't settle a city that far out. (the 2nd city) Reason? Maintanence, and #2... (besides, in a MP game, that city would be killed off quickly).

2 - I'd protect the worker. Animals have two movement and can pop out of the shadows and kill the worker. And #3...

3 - The location of that northern city isn't very good, as you've got mostly desert. Yes, there's fish, but it isn't gonna be very productive. (You can't use mountains, either). I'd probably build closer to the hills to the west or south-west, and maybe even shoot for those horses.

4 - It looks like you're trying a settler pump? In Civ4, the object is to build your economy first. You're making -1gpt. Ok, that's not much, but once you start building more cities, you'll feel the pinch big time.

5 - I see no hamlets. Those are needed to fuel your economy.

6 - I always try to nab atleast one religion early on. Why? Because:

a: I can build monastaries.
b: I can spread my religion around, allowing for even more monastaries.
c: I can build a shrine, allowing all cities in the world with your state religion in their cities, including AI ones to generate gold. That's very powerful. Spread it to enough AI cities, and you can make them convert to your religion, bringing point d.
d: If the AI civ's state religion is the same as yours, and you have the holy city for that religion, every city with that religion can be viewed by you.. (and vice versa for the AI if you have a religion that's the same as another AI who owns that religion).

[Blkbird]

Originally Posted by Chieftess

3 - The location of that northern city isn't very good, as you've got mostly desert. Yes, there's fish, but it isn't gonna be very productive. (You can't use mountains, either). I'd probably build closer to the hills to the west or south-west, and maybe even shoot for those horses.

I'm confused. What do you mean by "shoot for those horses"? The only Horse on the map has already been secured by us (even Pastured and Routed).

[Chieftess]

The horses 3 NW of the capital. (I'm referring to the first picture).

[Blkbird]

Originally Posted by Chieftess

The horses 3 NW of the capital. (I'm referring to the first picture).

That's a "before"-picture. Better look at the last three in section "Outlook 1".

[Stilgar08]

I read all of the posts and will do my turns tomorrow (26.th and post them here in the section.

You're talking about "losing citizens", which doesn't make sense since we can't keep the next citizen anyway. So why waste it?...........
Regarding the "Slavery in Karakorum" issue, I'm still waiting for an answer of my question, why losing an extra citizen which we can't keep anyway is an actual loss.

You know that we could keep the citizen if we wanted to. I pointed out how it could be done...
A specialist uses up food (therefore slowers growth! - You get my drift?) but gives something back to the civilization. A "used slave" is gone.

But since there seems to be a majority for building units and I'm only a humble servant of our civ I will give in regardless of my own point of view. I strongly feel it's not the right thing to do so, but the warmup has to move on...
In the real DG I would continue discussing but OTOH everything's been said (several times already!)...

I see there is a poll about next research goal.

@Stilgar08: You really should post a hint in the discussion thread (here) when you set up a poll.

Agreed! BTW, I checked the results and so it will be IW as next research-project. (I disagree again - Oh, the pain of democracy )

Merry Christmas everybody!

Stilgar

[Blkbird]

Originally Posted by Stilgar08

You know that we could keep the citizen if we wanted to. I pointed out how it could be done...
A specialist uses up food (therefore slowers growth! - You get my drift?) but gives something back to the civilization. A "used slave" is gone.

You tried to, but I believe you have a misunderstanding about how Happiness works in Civ4.

First, you want to set up a Scientist (or some other Specialist, doesn't matter) *after* you've built Library. But the next citizen will be there *before* you can finish Library.

Second, even if you set up a Specialist right now, you won't resolve the Happiness issue. A Specialist "consumes" Happiness just like a citizen working the tiles. Karakorum doesn't have any Happiness left right now to grow again, and you can't change this by assigning the citizens to any different tasks.

The only ways to keep the citizen is: (1) let the citizen be "angry" and refuse to work - I don't see why we should do that, especially since an angry citizen consumes Food while doing nothing; or (2) increase Karakorums Happiness - I don't see how this can be done short-term.

[Blkbird]

Originally Posted by Stilgar08

BTW, I checked the results and so it will be IW as next research-project. (I disagree again - Oh, the pain of democracy )

Arguably the most important issue at the current stage of our game is to decide where to build our next cities. The location of Iron is a crucial factor in that decision. Therefore researching Iron Working and thus revealing Iron (and particularly before our rivals do so) cannot be underestimated.

And the importance of Iron itself lies in - among others - Swordsman, which would be very handy in case we want to start invading Arabia at some time.

[Stilgar08]

Originally Posted by BlkBird

You tried to, but I believe you have a misunderstanding about how Happiness works in Civ4.

BlkBird, this will be my final post in this thread and I won't comment anymore on this issue, but let me assure you that I understand the ways of happiness/unhappiness in Civ4 quite well. The misunderstanding lies on your side I believe. I think you don't see what I mean.
In a last effort to clarify:
I know that specialists don't live outside the happiness-calculation, but specialists don't work city-tiles. You get food from city-tiles. If you set a specialist he cannot work tiles, he will contribute to the civ by giving GPP and his special bonus (scientist: +3science to give an example).
But a specialist eats food therefore slowing down growth of a city.

Originally Posted by BlkBird

The only ways to keep the citizen is: (1) let the citizen be "angry" and refuse to work - I don't see why we should do that, especially since an angry citizen consumes Food while doing nothing

I cannot understand why you see that anry citizens do nothing but consume food and don't understand that specialist DO something but concume food, too!!??

Well, nevertheless, my turns are done and we can continue to discuss specialist-issues the next time such a problem shows up!

Cheers and Merry christmas everybody!

Stilgar08

P.S.: You were right on IW!!!
I was able to follow the majority opinion, used the whip, built a settler, a new archer and still got my library and specialist! check the new thread (will be up in a second...)

[Blkbird]

Originally Posted by Stilgar08

BlkBird, this will be my final post in this thread and I won't comment anymore on this issue, but let me assure you that I understand the ways of happiness/unhappiness in Civ4 quite well.

This that case, the only misunderstanding is about the timing. I think you still haven't noticed that you would not have been able to finish the Library before the Population had exceeded the Happiness.

But now you have utilized Slavery, you speeded everything up, and all is well.