Help convincing my dad...

[GenocideBringer]

I mainly play Civ 4 with my dad. We both annihilated the AI on noble (we never finished the game though)...so the next game, we moved up to Prince. He started near quite a few AI.

Now, he was concerned about the AI taking his land, so he spammed settlers Civ 3 style, and only later on got some frickin workers. I was pounded by barbarians constantly for the beginning part of the game, and I got about 5 cities, and was in 2nd place, fast catching up to 1st. My dad was second to last (out of 8 AIs)...he didn't even have enough money to keep his research above 50% (this is early in the game.

I tried to convince him that he needed to not expand so much...but he kept insisting that if he didn't do it, then the AI would take over all his land.

Can anyone help me explain to him WHY expanding that fast (with very, very few workers) is a bad idea?

[DaveMcW]

Just make sure every city is paying its own upkeep and you'll be fine. You need cottages to generate money.

[jar2574]

I expand extremely rapidly and attempt to have roughly double the land of the AIs via chop rushing settlers and workers early.

Your dad's mistake is that he is not creating enough workers. Cities generally suck until workers can improve the terrain around them. For every city I found I have two workers working the land around it.

Cottages are also essential for a large empire. But I don't worry if my slider is at 50% or lower at times, as long as my total science output is higher than the other civs. When my cities all grow to decent sizes my empire can produce twice as much science as the other civs.

[RandomInsanity]

your dad is cool!

[rupertlittlebea]

your post is your explination.
Compare your game to his.
Then calculate the primary differences and systematically re-play with new strategies based on these differences.

[GenocideBringer]

I expand extremely rapidly and attempt to have roughly double the land of the AIs via chop rushing settlers and workers early.

Your dad's mistake is that he is not creating enough workers. Cities generally suck until workers can improve the terrain around them. For every city I found I have two workers working the land around it.

Cottages are also essential for a large empire. But I don't worry if my slider is at 50% or lower at times, as long as my total science output is higher than the other civs. When my cities all grow to decent sizes my empire can produce twice as much science as the other civs.

Meh..I didn't rush settlers. In fact, by the time the AI was encroaching on his land, I had almost as much territory as he did...plus I had been holding off barbarian attacks for a long time...

[Yzen Danek]

Tell your Dad this anecdote.

Once upon a time, two men set out from their parent's homes to find their fortunes. Each walked to and fro, looking for a good place to build his home. After some time, each of them separately came to a large opening in the forest, big enough for two homes.

'Greetings, neighbor,' one man said.
'Greetings, neighbor,' said the other.

Right away, the first man began toiling hard to build his home; he went into town and bought tools, and every day he felled trees to provide the lumber for his new abode.

Meanwhile, the second man sat on a stump near the location where his home was to be, soaking up the late summer sun and whittling sticks.

"Aren't you going to work on your house today?" said the first man.
"Soon," said the second.

Months passed, and the nights grew chilly. The first man was nearly done with his house, and still, the second man hadn't even begun his home; every day, he just sat on a stump, lazily whittling sticks.

"Winter will be upon us soon, aren't you going to work on your house?" said the first man.
"Soon" said the second.

Days passed, and soon snow began to fall. The first man's house was done, and it was beautiful.

"See?" said the first man; "Winter is upon us, and you've never built your house. Instead you wasted your days sitting about and whittling sticks. Granted, my body is so tired I can barely lift my hands, and I spent every last cent I had building this house, but now I've a warm place to sleep and cook, while you've got naught but that stump."

And with that, the second man picked up two of the spears he'd been whittling and killed the first man.

And that night, the second man cooked himself a nice supper on the other man's stove, and curled up by the fire in his bed.

[scienide09]

If your dad is concerned about the AI grabbing land but is spamming too many cities, try this:

Spread out earlier cities so that cultural border expansion covers the land that you want to keep away from the AI. Your dad can later fill in those open spaces with new cities, without creating a huge drain on resources early in the game.

While defending a spread-out empire can be more difficult due to large distances, it can have major advantages. This is the same principle as settling an city in a specific area to block the AI from moving past, for example, a peninsula or whatnot.

[joasoze]

Let the AI expand, build your army and then take the developed cities you need from the AI. Its that simple really

[joasoze]

I hardly ever build settlers anymore

[sirford]

i play huge maps all the time, and i only build about 5 cities and then roughly 100-200 swordsman over the course of 1000c bc to 1000c ad, leaving 3-4 civs dead and 100% conquered.

So tell him to let them take his land, but just take it back.

[sandman_civ]

Originally Posted by Yzen Danek

Tell your Dad this anecdote.

Well said, good sire

[punchandpie]

Tell him not over build on cities, try to build cities that will cut off the AIs from expanding past him, especially if there is a narrow passage for the AIs to go through. Just place cities where when there borders expand the AIs can't get through without a Open Border agreement. Make sure to build Stonehenge right away to help out with culture.

[joasoze]

Remember that when you get more than a few cities each new one will put a drain on your upkeep resources. That is a very good reason for taking developed cities from the AI. You dont have to pay for the early development of the city (upkeep and working tiles). Dinner is served already

[SlipperyJim]

And if your early warmongering happens to "gain" a holy city or two for your empire, all the better. Let Izzy waste her time founding religions, then take them away with your Axes and Swords.....