LK117 - Monarch, Just Win, Russia, Continents

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/LK117BC-2400.zip

Our random civ is Russia as Catherine.

4000 BC
I use an atypical start of agriculture for tech and a worker. I am *not* a big fan of immediate worker. However, Civ4 is adapting to what each game gives you. I have already researched fishing for my first tech and an ASAP workboat.


3680 BC
Exploring is going to stop for a while, as our scout was almost killed by the first animal to attack it.
(IT) Next up is Mysticism.


3440 BC
(IT) It took a long time, but we finally have a worker. Since no one has founded Hinduism yet, I am going to give it a try.


3120 BC
(IT) I should have gone with my gut and bagged the religion run why I want for farming. I swap us over to archery for better military.


2840 BC
(IT) Archery is completed. This is the first time I tried instant worker, and it comes we a real headache of trapping your research into just worker techs to keep him useful.


2640 BC
I still **hate** that fact that Civ4 will give you a half researched tech. Our free tech is the wheel that had 2 or 3 turns left on it.


2480 BC
(IT) As I feared would happen, our scout was eaten by bears.

==========================

Summary:
This is a really whacked start. It appears we are on a healthy sized continent by ourselves.

My suggestion for a dot-map is below. Purple dot will be stronger for shields, but I wonder if we want white dot first to get a boat our exploring.




Signed up:
LKendter
Arizona_Steve (currently playing)
Thyrwyn (on deck)
Sina
Gothmog


Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: To be determined

[LKendter]

Our massive land mass without another civ...

[Thyrwyn]

checking in, ready to go

[Gothmog]

Heh, I *am* a big fan of immediate worker/workboat. I think the first priority is improving tiles that give you significantly more than 2 food/hammer.

Is it just me or are there no images in LK's posts?

I can't comment more until I can see some images, but I will say that if we are alone on an island then founding a religion is important as no one will be actively spreading any to us. Circumnavigating takes on aditional importance too.

This is the first time I tried instant worker, and it comes we a real headache of trapping your research into just worker techs to keep him useful.

didn't we start with hunting and mining? add Agr too that and we're golden. I can't see the images so I don't know if we need husbandry too, but if we do I think that's a good thing.

[LKendter]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Heh, I *am* a big fan of immediate worker/workboat. I think the first priority is improving tiles that give you significantly more than 2 food/hammer.

We needed agriculture to get our bonus food tile going. Our worker was already running out of useful tasks, so I had to go for wheel and pottery.
That cost us Hinduism and probably cost us Judaism even with me setting the research path that direction.
IMHO that is a huge penalty to pay for getting a food tile developed. What good is growing fast if we lack happiness?
I will see how this game plays out, but I doubt I will do an immediate worker again. The price looks like it will turn out to high.

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Is it just me or are there no images in LK's posts?

The file server is down, so that is why you can't see pictures.

[Thyrwyn]

I, too, got no images. Figured LK would be adding them.

soon.

. . .

I am also a big fan of the early worker/work boat. Fishing starts with a sea resource rock

[Bezhukov]

"What good is growing fast if we lack happiness?"

CivIV. Food isn't just for growth anymore. It lets you build workers and settlers faster, while wasting fewer turns working low production tiles while you are growing. Small differences early make a huge impact later. But the usual reason for building a worker first is for chopping. See:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154872

[LKendter]

Originally Posted by Bezhukov

But the usual reason for building a worker first is for chopping.

Well we can't see the pictures right now, but the capitol has plenty of food. IMHO we *can't* afford to chop the forest around Moscow as lack of shields is it problem.

[Arizona_Steve]

Got it, for tonight. Hopefully the pictures will be back up by then.

[ChrTh]

lurker's comment:
If you upload your pics directly to the post via the paperclip, the pictures are showing. Of course, you might be out of personal space already. And, of course, the problem might be preventing new uploads even via the paperclip.


EDIT: Paperclip-uploaded files are still able to be uploaded/displayed.

[Bezhukov]

"Well we can't see the pictures right now, but the capitol has plenty of food. IMHO we *can't* afford to chop the forest around Moscow as lack of shields is it problem."

Maybe this is one of those cases Sirian talks about where the "optimal" strategy isn't optimal.

[Shillen]

Lurker comment:

For the first few weeks I was playing I was against a worker first strategy also, until I really thought about it. I figured I could build that worker a lot faster if I let my city grow to pop 2 or 3 first. But that's not really the case. Let's say the best two tiles you have to work before improvements are a plains wheat and a grassland forest. At size 1 you'll have 2 food surplus and 2 shields. So you'll finish your worker in 15 turns on normal speed. If you let your city grow to size 2 first you'll have 2 food surplus and 3 shields. So it will take 12 turns to build the worker. By waiting until size 2 you only shaved off 3 turns to build your worker, hardly noticeable considering it took you 10+ turns to reach size 2. Getting a worker out early isn't only about growing your cities quickly. As a poster above mentioned, food surplus also accelerates future worker and settler builds. And workers can also build mines and farms for production, and collect resources of course. Nowadays doing anything but a worker first is very rare for me. About the only time I won't go worker first is if I'm going for an early religion, which I rarely do.

[Arizona_Steve]

(0) 2400BC:
This is a pretty good start by Monarch standards. Our capital will make an excellent commerce city, and even has a couple of hills to get the commerce and science building built. To balance things out, I'm inclined to go for a production city to pump out military, workers and settlers. Purple dot fits this requirement far better than white dot, and that is where I'm inclined to settle next.

Moscow is already nicely optimized, and I leave it as is.

I notice that all techs up to Monotheism have been queued up. Early religions are next to impossible to get on Monarch unless one has Mysticism, and beelines to Polytheism or Monotheism. The Organized Religion civic will be useless to us without a state religion. I leave Pottery going so that we can get some cottages built, but veto the religion push in favor of... I don't know. Will decide when Pottery completes. If it's culture we require (not so important for cultural civs), I would go for Writing and libraries in preference to religions and monasteries/temples. At least we know we can get the libraries.

(3) 2280BC:
Pottery is in. Animal Husbandry is selected as there are sheep at our second city that will need activating. Due in 10.

(4) 2240BC:
Our settler completes in Moscow, and is sent to Purple dot. This will be our production center with six hills in range, plus sheep and grasslands to support them.
A second worker is ordered up.

(6) 2160BC:
St Petersburg is founded on Purple dot, and starts an archer. It reveals a barbarian warrior outside the border. A fortified archer is in place, however.

(7) 2120BC:
St Petes and Moscow are hooked up by road. The barbarian warrior disappears, while a barbarian archer appears north of Moscow.

(9) 2040BC:
Second worker completes at Moscow. An archer is ordered to help counter impending barbarian doom. Worker starts cottaging next to Moscow by the river, for the extra commerce.

(10) 2000BC:
Looks like the barbs are heading for our borders. Watch out.

Moscow should be optimized for commerce and should get cottages, starting with the river tiles where possible.
St Petes should be optimized for production and should get farms on the grasslands and mines on the hills.

LK117 - 2000BC save file

[LKendter]

With A_S giving up on Judaism this game is going to be ugly. We really need to figure out how we can get a religion or happiness will much harder and we finding a friend will be really hard...
I am really beating myself up now for the delay on Hinduism for a worker tech.

Signed up:
LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Thyrwyn (currently playing)
Sina (on deck)
Gothmog


Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: To be determined

[Arizona_Steve]

In my opinion, lack of religion is not a significant handicap. I have played several island games where I have been isolated until someone else came along in a caraval, and it has not set me back that much. I think our first course of action should be to settle our third city on the coast, research sailing and build a galley to see if anyone can be reached.

Failing that, research up to code of laws and currency, then beeline to optics while building courthouses and marketplaces to allow us to expand while maintaining a decent research rate.

[Bezhukov]

I don't often bother for an early religion either, and you were unlikely to get judaism anyway, but you also haven't found one lux on the map so far.

That can certainly crimp your style. Contacting another civ/exploring land to find a lux is a high priority. If you are stuck without happiness resources, Pyramids can be a life-saver, as can your cheap theaters and colosseums, or just good old-fashioned monarchy. Getting these techs usually requires running a scientist colony, however.

[Arizona_Steve]

I guess Monarchy would need to be added to the list, so we can use military for happiness.

[Thyrwyn]

I've got it.

[Thyrwyn]

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Inherited turn. Looks good. I move Archer out of St. Pete's towards the BarbWarrior to protect our Worker. I move the archer in Moscow onto the mined hill to discourage the Barb Archer.


Turn 51 (1960 BC)
Both Barbs disappear into the fog. St. Petersburg's borders expand. an Info pop-up declares us the Largest Civ.


Turn 52 (1920 BC)
Research Animal Husbandry > Bronze Working I have a plan There are Horses everywhere. Really. everywhere that is not in our borders that is. . .
Moscow Archer > Archer; I see a hut east of Moscow, so I send our scout, erm, Warrior out of Moscow to pop it. Warrior down south discovers a great fishing village with lots of trees, Deer, Horses, and two Fish. Looks like that is where we establish our Summer Dacha: Hunting, Riding, and Caviar. Such is the life of the Tsarina



Turn 53 (1880 BC)
zzz. . .


Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Moscow Archer > Stonehenge LK wants Religion, I will get him some religion. Building purely for the GP points. We can burn the prophet to find our faith. This is a small gamble, butif we don't get it, the cash will allow us to absorb the maintenence of more cities.


Turn 55 (1800 BC)
Warrior enters the tribal village, and we learn Horseback Riding!


Turn 56 (1760 BC)
Start a mine near St. Pete's


Turn 57 (1720 BC)
zzz. . .


Turn 58 (1680 BC)
zzz. . .


Turn 59 (1640 BC)
St. Petersburg Archer > Barracks no more conscripts for us!


Turn 60 (1600 BC)
Research Bronze Working > Polytheism I queued up Masonry and Monotheism next! If we found Judaism great, if not we will need to get the religious techs out of the way so our Prophet can get us some faith.

The bad news is that there is NO COPPER on our entire continent! As the Prophet is 50 turns away, we may want to spare a few turns to research Iron Working. Given the vast food surplus in Moscow, we could also pick up Writing, build a Library and run scientists. This would dilute our GP pool, however.

Our Workers have built two cottages around Moscow. When not starving to rush a Wonder (see below) these provide quite the research boost.

They finished a farm, pastured the Sheep and built a mine near St. Pete's.


The worker on the roaded, forested hill near Moscow just started a chop - comes in in 3. Moscow is at max Happy and starving slowly (-1 food, 10+ in the bank). Stonehenge finishes in 6. The chop should finish it when it comes in in 3. I would build a Settler next.

[Bezhukov]

That's your third and fourth cities in that wonder - hope its worth it.