Why is everyone so afraid of Monty?

[DarkSchneider]

The only Civilization I seem to consistently have trouble with are Russia and Spain. Every game I've played with Montezuma have had him dump a huge number of extremely inferior units near one of my cities. Better than barracks, it's the montezuma training camp.

[Hans Lemurson]

In Civ4, along with each leader having unique abilities, they are given a unique AI personality. Montezuma, though i have never fought him, I believe is rather warlike and aggressive. He will invest a lot of resources into building up a military, and will be more likely to attack you. Since fighting wars is costly, this can slow down your development, or eve cripple you if not miltarily prepared. I also belive that Montezuma is somewhat more expansionist than other powers, and so will end up ruling on average a larger domain than other players. This gives him a strong industrial base for his war machine, so that he becomes more effective in war. If he does not succeed in thismilitaristic expansionism, it will cost him greatly, and he will fall behind in tech and be, as you said, a "training camp". His militarism may end up hurting him in the long run, but if you are his neighbor, you might just get taken down with him too.

Combine this with the fact that not all AI's are militaristic, and you will get him carving out an empire and becoming powerful. The more he conquers, the easier it is for him to conquer more. Though this will rarely spiral out of control (ie. AI conquest victory), he will often be a "Danger to himself and others".

Another notable warmonger is Alexander. If you are his neighbor, unless you vastly overpower him, he will try to wipe you off the face of the earth. Even if he doesn't win, he may very well take away your chance of winning.

Aggressive Leaders are to be worried about, not so much that they are "Rivals", but that they are threats. You are rarely going to worry about Montezuma beating you to a diplomatic or cultural victory (unless he gets an empire), but you will worry about his armies appearing on your doorstep.

[uncarved block]

Afraid? Not really. Annoyed? Most certainly. When Monty is in the game, especially if he's within striking distance, it means that you are going to play the warmonger, whether you wanted to or not. I dont' know about you, but I pick my civ with a general notion of what kind of game I want to play, though not the victory conditions. If Monty is next door, though, all that goes out the window, because it's nearly impossible to prevent an attack. At least with Isabella you can switch religions . . .
OTOH, the 1.52 patch seems to have swung gameplay back to mandatory warmongering anyway, so the initial perceptions may not match what's going on in the game.

[hollebeek]

On higher levels you are going to have to attack a neighbor early anyway ...
having Monty next to you is actually convenient, as it makes it easier to
pick who to go to war with, and nobody gets mad when you attack him,
since he rarely gets along with anyone.

[DarkSchneider]

Yes, more often than not Alexander is a problem, although amazingly enough, on my last game he adopted my religion and was pleased/friendly with me nearly the entire game. Until I had to wipe him off the continent that is. One Civ per continent is my rule

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Originally Posted by hollebeek

On higher levels you are going to have to attack a neighbor early anyway ...
having Monty next to you is actually convenient, as it makes it easier to
pick who to go to war with, and nobody gets mad when you attack him,
since he rarely gets along with anyone.

I think so to. I like that he's so predictable. Yes, it can change your gameplan to discover that Montezuma is nearby, but at the same time you'll never be sneak attacked or backstabbed by him. Just plan on going to war with him from turn 1, and there will never be any surprises. I find that makes him a lot easier to deal with than many of the more "sane" leaders.

[Muz]

Alexander's been my biggest problem last night. Tried playing on Prince controlling India, then Persia. Both times, Alex declared war on me pretty early. I had 5 nice cities in the first game and he razed 2 of them and knocked me back to the classical age while everyone was medieval. . The persia one didn't work out either.. my cities all started out on ice with all the fertile lands taken...

[Abdomination]

I think Louis is always the most destructive ruler, he always declares war on me despite having inferior forces

[ShaLouZa]

I'm not afraid of Monty, since he can not drive a war properly. But he's a pain in the ass : _every_ single game he's on the map, he declares war on me. EVERY time ! He can be on the over end of the map, I can see him for the first time in the 18th century, he can be seriously outpowered and/or out-teched, he WILL declare war on me and make me waste some production and units to kick his butt. I hate that guy. Last time he attacked me with knights and catapults in the 20th century, I pumped West Point Navy Seals and wiped his continent clean of every Aztec city to teach him the value of diplomacy. Ended at -37 favor with him, I think.

AFAIK, Isabella is much more dangerous. She really knows how to sneak to a vulnerable coast city and capture it the same turn that she declares war. Happened me twice. And she doesn't bother to keep the city, she torchs it.

[Vonreuter]

I've lost a war to Monty only once and even then he was in league with Genghis Khan. Their elephants did short work of my cities then.

However, I have been pounded back to the dark ages by well-timed, early attacks from Monty and Alexander. By feeding you units to kill and destroying your improvements, they will seriously hamper your chances of winning, especially if you're in the delicate "let's not build military just yet" phase.

So, they are dangerous, because you have to take precautions. If my only neighbour is Gandhi, I can fairly safely research techs that are not military in nature and get a good start as opposed to researching Archery and wasting rounds building troops instead of granaries.

And let's not forget that fighting wars against the computer seriously slows down your game... I hate killing off Samurai and running interception in the jungles, when I could be hitting End Turn to get this tech or that wonder.

[Gyspsysmoke]

Currently in a huge pangea game with Alexander, Monty, Isa, GK, Catherine, and Napoleon (HC and Asok are both dead and FDR just chillin)...

I've managed to keep Monty on my good side (through religion and trading), like +10 with him (he is my neighbor), catherine (my other neighbor) is also on my good side (I have single handly kept her in the game by trading/giving techs, she is my Alexander buffer)

one of them has a larger army than me, which scares me, so my war machine is turned on...

I think I'll draw Monty or catherine into a war and then backstab them, I am going for a domination or conquest victory

[DragonRunner]

Watch Gandhi on religion,though-In my current game, I'm right up against him. I was playing nice with him until I switched religions to the Christianity that I founded. He jumped all over me at that point, and I just barely managed to retake Boston, MY holy city, and get a couple little towns of Gandhi's before talking peace. Now, I guess I have to worry about Alexander to my South...

[Gyspsysmoke]

i think that Ghandi should be unable to start wars

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by Gyspsysmoke

Currently in a huge pangea game with Alexander, Monty, Isa, GK, Catherine, and Napoleon (HC and Asok are both dead and FDR just chillin)...

Good grief, I think you got all of the aggressive AIs in the same game! Check that, Toku is missing....

Who are you (leader / civ), and what difficulty level is this?

[maltz]

I was on an Immortal game with a 5 other Civs, including Monty.

I wiped one out, and then crippled the largest Civ. I thought it is time to sit back and develop. I parked all of my axeman to the frontline and start quening spearmen and archers. By the time they arrive at the front line, my defense was solid. In terms of army size, I exceed the free unit support quota a little. In terms of army power, Monty and Bismark are leaders, while I am the third. Their army is spread out, while mine is concentrated.

Suddenly Monty declared war to me. His territory was on the other end of the continent, and his army was far inferior than mine. At my dedicated frontline city, my axeman slaughter his Quencha, spearman slaughter his horse archers... How pathetic AI.

But the war seems to go on forever... so I loaded up a previous save. I finished off one Civ and gave Monty a city. His feeling becomes +6 to me (Pleased). Then guess what, he still attacked me! WTF...

I just don't get it. He can easily prey on a neighbor that is dying (1 city left). Any reasonable human would pick that as the next expansion point, not a very powerful country on the other side of the continent. What is Monty AI thinking?

Now I just want to kill him everytime I see him, no matter how friendly he is to me.

[b-dubb]

Monty is predictable, yes, so he's easy to prepare for. Get in a holy war on his side, and have a respectable army and he will love you (at least he does to me, but then, i usually have the largest army [prince-monarch]).

[bonscott]

Afraid of Monty? Definately not.

But if he's next to me I start to prepare to Axe and Sword rush him even if I'm looking for a peaceful game. Only time you don't need to do that is if you're the same religion as him and you bow to some of his demands should he ask of you. Then he can remain pretty friendly, especially if you help him out in a war at some point.

But in most games he's in we end up different religions and worst enemies right away so he must be taken out because he *will* backstab you at some point, sooner then later. Same with Isabella, she will backstab you if you are differing religions.

[Gyspsysmoke]

Originally Posted by SlipperyJim

Good grief, I think you got all of the aggressive AIs in the same game! Check that, Toku is missing....

Who are you (leader / civ), and what difficulty level is this?

it's on noble, and I set it up this way (I am Toku ) to practice warmongering before I move up to Prince

[neriana]

Afraid, no. Severely annoyed, yes. Any leader who declares war on me when they're "pleased" with me makes me very angry. That would be Monty, Alex, Louis and Genghis. Monty's the least threatening out of all of those though.

[FriendlyFire]

No But hes very large armies arent difficult to deal with its the massive pillaging which is carried out.

As well as not accepting terms for peace and dragging the war on for longer then nessacery. When your entire population is suffering from war weariness.