Map Discussion

BCLG100 · Feb 05, 2006, 05:57 AM

How are we going to make the map?

Will we just get a random map or a specially created one which has equal luxuries, i assume if its a random map then GA or Regentman will take a look at world builder first to make sure everything is ok?

Just figured i'd start this so we can get a bit of discussion going and the game can progress along a bit faster.

**Ginger_Ale** · Feb 05, 2006, 06:19 AM

We will decide this later once teams have formed and they decide it in the private forums...I guess you can discuss it here too.

First, decide on the map type, and then we'll decide on how it will be made.

BCLG100 · Feb 05, 2006, 11:36 AM

Well that was what i inteded we could talk about here as well, though i appreciate from my post that it may not have been obvious. i think a continents game would be best on a standard sized map.

Swissempire · Feb 05, 2006, 01:07 PM

Standard randomly generated map. Terra. We should also not do the equal distribtuion thing because that would take a lot o suprise and fun out of the game. Also Terra would be amazing because the colonizing race, and then the colony wars would be fun!!!

DaveShack · Feb 05, 2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swissempire

Standard randomly generated map. Terra. We should do the equal distribtuion thing because that would take a lot o suprise and fun out of the game. Also Terra would be amazing because the colonizing race, and then the colony wars would be fun!!!

I asume you mean not do the equal distribution thing, if your goal is to keep the surprise factor?

Swissempire · Feb 05, 2006, 03:58 PM

yea, sorry about the typo! I think it is unrealistic to give all the teams say 2 horses, gems, gold, iron, ivory and all that jazz

peter grimes · Feb 05, 2006, 05:30 PM

I don't know what others think, but I feel that the uniformity of the civ3MTDG map somewhat nullifies the need to compete for resources, though there are clear benefits of playing on that sort of map.

The game will be more exciting if teams have to live and die by the luck of the terrain to a certain extent. Obviously, we can't have a situation where someone gets a tundra start, but there should be some variability.

*This in no way should be read as a criticism of Rik's work on the civ3 MTDG map. I may not go to his church, but respect him nonetheless

Furiey · Feb 05, 2006, 05:34 PM

At the moment 5 teams appears to be winning, so how does that affect the map?

If we go continents we could get 2 civs on 1 continent, 3 on another or 2 continents with 2 civs and 1 alone on a third.

If we want to try and keep things roughly equal, an archipelago map with each civ on an island would be one way to do it, but I think that Pangea would probably be the best bet.

As the demogame save is the first one I've ever managed to load above Tiny, I can't really comment on map size.

Swissempire · Feb 05, 2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furiey

At the moment 5 teams appears to be winning, so how does that affect the map?

If we go continents we could get 2 civs on 1 continent, 3 on another or 2 continents with 2 civs and 1 alone on a third.

If we want to try and keep things roughly equal, an archipelago map with each civ on an island would be one way to do it, but I think that Pangea would probably be the best bet.

As the demogame save is the first one I've ever managed to load above Tiny, I can't really comment on map size.

Or we could go completely random, with a terra map. This would ensure that everyone is on the same contient, that there would be an exciting colonizing race, while also making the teams compete for prime real estate on the "old world".

Tubby Rower · Feb 06, 2006, 05:25 AM

@ Peter, we've been fighting among ourselves over at KISS for the wines.

I've always liked random maps. That being said. It would suck if a team was planted in the middle of a desert with no resources but sand and sun.

But I've never seen a non-playable start. maybe unwinnable but none unplayable. Personally I would take it as a challenge to see how far my team went if we were down a fairly critical resource. I think that this mimics the real world a little more and would make for an interesting game. Once Permanent alliances come about, a smaller state could win the game alongside a larger state. So both COULD taste victory.

Pangaea Standard has my vote regardless of how the # of teams poll turns out

grahamiam · Feb 06, 2006, 09:22 AM

I'd prefer lakes so each team can have a maximum amount of land.

Swissempire · Feb 06, 2006, 10:15 AM

Random Standard Terra has my vote.

Also, This is a newbish question, are there AI's or just the 5 teams? And how many AI's

Tubby Rower · Feb 06, 2006, 11:03 AM

no AI at all except barbs.

Isn't Terra where you have to find the other continent? Lakes wouldn't be bad but the team in the middle as opposed to the edges will be caught in the middle of everything since there is no world wrapping. Somthing that simulates a globe would be best IMO.

grahamiam · Feb 06, 2006, 11:21 AM

iirc, lakes does world wrap. It's the Great Plains that does not. At least, in gotm2, it did worldwrap.

Since this is just a discussion thread, not a vote thread, my reasons for Lakes as follows:
1. Starts can be northern or southern and still get good expansion room
2. with the dispersal of resources in CIV and the amount of land on this type of map, it should allow each team to develope a powerful civ
3. based on 2, it should be easier to balance without using the games "balanced start" algorithm when generating the map.
4. All teams will share a border with at least 2 or 3 teams (if I'm visualizing it right)

Drawbacks:
1. No navy's to speak of.
2. Large barb population to kill off (well, it's good training for teams with AA UU's)
3. long borders between civs (could be tense

). Possible to appease this by making the ocean level high, thus more lakes (and maybe making drawback 1 less so).

Anyways, just my USD$0.02 Maybe we should try a pitboss game later this week with 5 players on a lakes map to test it?

Swissempire · Feb 06, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubby Rower

no AI at all except barbs.

Isn't Terra where you have to find the other continent? Lakes wouldn't be bad but the team in the middle as opposed to the edges will be caught in the middle of everything since there is no world wrapping. Somthing that simulates a globe would be best IMO.

A Terra map is a map in which ALL the Civs start out on a continent on one side of the world, kind of like europe. THe map is generated to simlutae the globe, but not be exactly like it. This lack of space after the intial expanison can lead to border clashes, and wars for single cities. After the appropriate tech is discovered, there is a race to discover and colonize the "new world", which can sometime be full of native barbarian cities that needs to be taken care of. Terra maps offer an amazing experience, and in my opinion, they would make for an amzing MTDG experience!

Swissempire · Feb 06, 2006, 11:27 AM

Pro's:
All teams on the same continent to begin with
Share a border with at least 2-3 teams
Colony racing
Fun experience
Lots of warring

Cons
Lots of warring
Sometimes have to make war or wait to colonize the new world to get a certain resource
early border clashes

grahamiam · Feb 06, 2006, 11:33 AM

re: terra

But why even explore the new world? seems like the game could be finished before anyone steps foot on the other continent.

BCLG100 · Feb 06, 2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamiam

re: terra

But why even explore the new world? seems like the game could be finished before anyone steps foot on the other continent.

No because generally the teams are fairly even in talent and dont tend to be destroyed too easily.

Whomp · Feb 06, 2006, 11:41 AM

Is there any way we could get Sirian to make a special map for this game?

**Ginger_Ale** · Feb 06, 2006, 01:37 PM

RM or I can always ask him - what do you have in mind?

FYI: We'll ask TF for private forums soon, and post a sign up thread so each team can start discussing the map they want.

Feb 05, 2006, 05:57 AM	#1
BCLG100 Music Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lahndan Posts: 16,657	Map Discussion How are we going to make the map? Will we just get a random map or a specially created one which has equal luxuries, i assume if its a random map then GA or Regentman will take a look at world builder first to make sure everything is ok? Just figured i'd start this so we can get a bit of discussion going and the game can progress along a bit faster. __________________ If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from? Cure Cancer! Start Folding Today! Thanks Mistfit! And Rheinmetall for the christmasising

Feb 05, 2006, 06:19 AM	#2
Ginger_Ale Lurker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 8,448 Images: 225	We will decide this later once teams have formed and they decide it in the private forums...I guess you can discuss it here too. First, decide on the map type, and then we'll decide on how it will be made. __________________ Editing Main Site Pages - Commonly Used Acronyms - Colonization FAQ - Colonization Info Center - Colonization Quick Answers - CivRev Info Center - CivRev Quick Answers - Civ4 FAQ - Civ4 Quick Answers - Civ3 FAQ - Civ3 Quick Answers

Feb 05, 2006, 11:36 AM	#3
BCLG100 Music Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lahndan Posts: 16,657	Well that was what i inteded we could talk about here as well, though i appreciate from my post that it may not have been obvious. i think a continents game would be best on a standard sized map. __________________ If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from? Cure Cancer! Start Folding Today! Thanks Mistfit! And Rheinmetall for the christmasising

Feb 05, 2006, 01:07 PM	#4
Swissempire Poet Jester Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamilton College/Florida Posts: 5,018	Standard randomly generated map. Terra. We should also not do the equal distribtuion thing because that would take a lot o suprise and fun out of the game. Also Terra would be amazing because the colonizing race, and then the colony wars would be fun!!! __________________ The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages. As a precaution to ever committing major acts of evil it is our solemn duty never to do what we're told. -Banksy Some people care too much. I think it's called love. -Winnie the Pooh I can't sing like the birds, but I gots me a twitter Last edited by Swissempire; Feb 05, 2006 at 03:57 PM.

Feb 05, 2006, 03:58 PM	#6
Swissempire Poet Jester Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamilton College/Florida Posts: 5,018	yea, sorry about the typo! I think it is unrealistic to give all the teams say 2 horses, gems, gold, iron, ivory and all that jazz __________________ The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages. As a precaution to ever committing major acts of evil it is our solemn duty never to do what we're told. -Banksy Some people care too much. I think it's called love. -Winnie the Pooh I can't sing like the birds, but I gots me a twitter

Feb 05, 2006, 05:30 PM	#7
peter grimes ... Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Queens, New York Posts: 9,991	I don't know what others think, but I feel that the uniformity of the civ3MTDG map somewhat nullifies the need to compete for resources, though there are clear benefits of playing on that sort of map. The game will be more exciting if teams have to live and die by the luck of the terrain to a certain extent. Obviously, we can't have a situation where someone gets a tundra start, but there should be some variability. *This in no way should be read as a criticism of Rik's work on the civ3 MTDG map. I may not go to his church, but respect him nonetheless __________________ "When faced with stupidity, I dont find 'critical thinking' useful." chiteng

Feb 05, 2006, 05:34 PM	#8
Furiey No Longer Just Lurking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bedfordshire UK Posts: 6,289	At the moment 5 teams appears to be winning, so how does that affect the map? If we go continents we could get 2 civs on 1 continent, 3 on another or 2 continents with 2 civs and 1 alone on a third. If we want to try and keep things roughly equal, an archipelago map with each civ on an island would be one way to do it, but I think that Pangea would probably be the best bet. As the demogame save is the first one I've ever managed to load above Tiny, I can't really comment on map size. __________________ (NoAIPatrol=0) SGOTM o0O0o SGOTM 0 MTDG II: Team CDZ o0O0o Fold for CFC and help cure disease! UK CFC Meetup: London, 2 October 2010

Feb 06, 2006, 05:25 AM	#10
Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Middle of Virginia Hair: None Posts: 5,832	@ Peter, we've been fighting among ourselves over at KISS for the wines. I've always liked random maps. That being said. It would suck if a team was planted in the middle of a desert with no resources but sand and sun. But I've never seen a non-playable start. maybe unwinnable but none unplayable. Personally I would take it as a challenge to see how far my team went if we were down a fairly critical resource. I think that this mimics the real world a little more and would make for an interesting game. Once Permanent alliances come about, a smaller state could win the game alongside a larger state. So both COULD taste victory. Pangaea Standard has my vote regardless of how the # of teams poll turns out __________________ Mii Wii Number - 8312 8910 9560 5088 NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS --never fight with an idiot, for he'll bring you down to his level and beat you by experience.-- >>>>"imagine a super idiot so idiotic you don't even say a word and he starts laughing at what you said. That'd be amazing" - B <<<< "Stupid is forever. You can't change stupidity." - Temple's Basketball Coach John Chaney to the home crowd

Feb 06, 2006, 09:22 AM	#11
grahamiam In debt to Mr. Geisel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsyltukey, USA Posts: 4,100	I'd prefer lakes so each team can have a maximum amount of land.

Feb 06, 2006, 10:15 AM	#12
Swissempire Poet Jester Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamilton College/Florida Posts: 5,018	Random Standard Terra has my vote. Also, This is a newbish question, are there AI's or just the 5 teams? And how many AI's __________________ The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages. As a precaution to ever committing major acts of evil it is our solemn duty never to do what we're told. -Banksy Some people care too much. I think it's called love. -Winnie the Pooh I can't sing like the birds, but I gots me a twitter

Feb 06, 2006, 11:03 AM	#13
Tubby Rower Chronic Slacker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Middle of Virginia Hair: None Posts: 5,832	no AI at all except barbs. Isn't Terra where you have to find the other continent? Lakes wouldn't be bad but the team in the middle as opposed to the edges will be caught in the middle of everything since there is no world wrapping. Somthing that simulates a globe would be best IMO. __________________ Mii Wii Number - 8312 8910 9560 5088 NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS --never fight with an idiot, for he'll bring you down to his level and beat you by experience.-- >>>>"imagine a super idiot so idiotic you don't even say a word and he starts laughing at what you said. That'd be amazing" - B <<<< "Stupid is forever. You can't change stupidity." - Temple's Basketball Coach John Chaney to the home crowd

Feb 06, 2006, 11:21 AM	#14
grahamiam In debt to Mr. Geisel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsyltukey, USA Posts: 4,100	iirc, lakes does world wrap. It's the Great Plains that does not. At least, in gotm2, it did worldwrap. Since this is just a discussion thread, not a vote thread, my reasons for Lakes as follows: 1. Starts can be northern or southern and still get good expansion room 2. with the dispersal of resources in CIV and the amount of land on this type of map, it should allow each team to develope a powerful civ 3. based on 2, it should be easier to balance without using the games "balanced start" algorithm when generating the map. 4. All teams will share a border with at least 2 or 3 teams (if I'm visualizing it right) Drawbacks: 1. No navy's to speak of. 2. Large barb population to kill off (well, it's good training for teams with AA UU's) 3. long borders between civs (could be tense ). Possible to appease this by making the ocean level high, thus more lakes (and maybe making drawback 1 less so). Anyways, just my USD$0.02 Maybe we should try a pitboss game later this week with 5 players on a lakes map to test it?

Feb 06, 2006, 11:27 AM	#16
Swissempire Poet Jester Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hamilton College/Florida Posts: 5,018	Pro's: All teams on the same continent to begin with Share a border with at least 2-3 teams Colony racing Fun experience Lots of warring Cons Lots of warring Sometimes have to make war or wait to colonize the new world to get a certain resource early border clashes __________________ The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages. As a precaution to ever committing major acts of evil it is our solemn duty never to do what we're told. -Banksy Some people care too much. I think it's called love. -Winnie the Pooh I can't sing like the birds, but I gots me a twitter

Feb 06, 2006, 11:33 AM	#17
grahamiam In debt to Mr. Geisel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsyltukey, USA Posts: 4,100	re: terra But why even explore the new world? seems like the game could be finished before anyone steps foot on the other continent.

Feb 06, 2006, 11:41 AM	#19
Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,965	Is there any way we could get Sirian to make a special map for this game? __________________ Avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable. --Mark Hertsgaard A small team of A players can run circles around a giant team of B and C players. --Steve Jobs When all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen. --Bob Farrell Some of it, you want to unlearn. -- Keith Richards

Feb 06, 2006, 01:37 PM	#20
Ginger_Ale Lurker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 8,448 Images: 225	RM or I can always ask him - what do you have in mind? FYI: We'll ask TF for private forums soon, and post a sign up thread so each team can start discussing the map they want. __________________ Editing Main Site Pages - Commonly Used Acronyms - Colonization FAQ - Colonization Info Center - Colonization Quick Answers - CivRev Info Center - CivRev Quick Answers - Civ4 FAQ - Civ4 Quick Answers - Civ3 FAQ - Civ3 Quick Answers

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Map Discussion	Sullla	Team Kazakhstan	12	Nov 19, 2008 06:35 AM
Map Discussion	Sullla	Team Saturn	13	Nov 18, 2008 12:54 AM
Map Discussion	Sullla	Team Mad Scientists	13	Nov 17, 2008 11:59 AM
Map Discussion	Tubby Rower	Civ3 - Multi-Team Demogame II	127	Jan 08, 2007 05:06 PM

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. This site is copyright © Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com \| Amazon UK \| Amazon DE \| Amazon CA \| Amazon FR