Why Oh Why (Map/Contact Trading)

[Fried Egg]

Why oh why did they make map trading only available with Navigation in Conquests? And trading contacts only available with Printing Press?

Afterall, by that stage in the game, you will most likely have already made contact with everyone and have explored most of the map (perhaps not in the larger maps, I don't know; I only play Standard and smaller).

I think they should both be available much earlier.

[thetrooper]

I've gotten used to it. Besides it's more realistic. How many cartographers mapped the complete world in, say, 1500 BC?

[Fried Egg]

Originally Posted by thetrooper

I've gotten used to it. Besides it's more realistic. How many cartographers mapped the complete world in, say, 1500 BC?

I too have gotten used to it by simply never trading contacts because it always becomes redundant long before I get to printing press.

If you can make maps with map making, why should you not be able to trade them? That doesn't seem to realistic to me.

And what is the point in only enabling map trading long after most of the map will likely have already been explored by you?

Although I admit that trading maps can still be useful even after the land has been revealed because it gives you an update on improvements made.

[thetrooper]

Originally Posted by Fried Egg

If you can make maps with map making, why should you not be able to trade them? That doesn't seem to realistic to me.

Fair point.

Map Making is a bad name for that tech in C3C. Any suggestions for an optional name?

btw: there's a discussion thread (by forum member Rambuchan) in World History about Maps if you're interested.

[thetrooper]

Originally Posted by Fried Egg

And what is the point in only enabling map trading long after most of the map will likely have already been explored by you?

Map trading with Astronomy perhaps? That's a few techs earlier...

[Fried Egg]

Originally Posted by thetrooper

Map trading with Astronomy perhaps? That's a few techs earlier...

Still too late in my opinion. I think that map trading was ok with map making personally. I don't know why they changed it.

Perhaps they should have renamed "Map Making" to "Sea Faring" because it enables harbors and Galleys (and no longer the making of maps).

[vmxa]

I suspect that it was don't slow down research and wars.

[gunkulator]

Lack of early contact trading took some teeth out of the AI. Pre-C3C, the AI would demand contacts from you. Now all they ask for is 17 gold or something lame like that.

[ac196nataku]

I too did not like these changes.

[Padma]

IIRC, when we were beta-testing Conquests, it was determined that the earlier timing was simply too exploitive. That's why they got pushed out to later techs.

[Bartleby]

I like it, because it helps average players like me keep up on higher levels.

[vmxa]

Moving it was to stop the human from expoiting it. I remember that now.

[Mr David]

How can humans exploit early contact/map trading?

[vmxa]

They can send out suicide ships to get contacts, while the AI will not. Then you may be able to get monopoly trades, since many of the civs will not have contacts.

If you are in a game at a level like DG or better, the AI could have demanded contacts. Now it cannot as it does not yet have the tech.

[Empiremaker]

If you really hate it use the editor to make it whatever tech you choose. You could make the map trading with some random tech like mysitcism if you chose. With the editor it's your choice.

[azzaman333]

Is it possible to allow Territory Map trading with MapMaking, and World Map Trading with Navigation? If it was like that, i (personally) beleive it would be much better. And maybe move Contact Trading to Republic?

[ac196nataku]

I like the idea with the seperation of the maps. Don't like contact with Republic: it overvalues a tech that is already overvalued.

[azzaman333]

Originally Posted by ac196nataku

I like the idea with the seperation of the maps. Don't like contact with Republic: it overvalues a tech that is already overvalued.

I tried to think of a better place for Conact Trading, but couldnt.

[FlowKey]

Originally Posted by Fried Egg

Afterall, by that stage in the game, you will most likely have already made contact with everyone and have explored most of the map (perhaps not in the larger maps, I don't know; I only play Standard and smaller).

It does not primarily depend on the map size, but more on land formation. If you pick an archipelago or continents map with a low percentage of land, not many civs will be able to explore the whole world before magnetism arrives.

In one particular game I was Netherlands (seafaring!) on a small continents map. After I built the Great Lighthouse, I was the only one with a good map of the world and contacts with every other civ - which is an amazing position for Science Brokering. By the time I could trade contacts, I didn't do so to milk this advantage to the max. By the time we could trade maps, I made an additional load of lucrative map and contacts deals, selling maps and contacts they would procure by themselves in no time.

If you are not seafaring on such a map, an AI civ that is will likely gain the same advantage, but lacks the restraint to exploit the advantage to the max.

My point is: I personally find it challenging to play by the original rules. If you don't like the rules, change them, as has been suggested by previous posters.